Dhalsim General Thread: The Longer it Gets, the Harder it Hits

[Marmalade_Jones]

Command is the same as SFIV. As far as I know, minus specific frames, teleport properties seemed very much the same as SFIV.

So is Yoga Flame still HCB command?

[killthevibe]

i think sim is strong as fuck and people just aren’t playing him right. same goes for bison. they are easily the two best chars in the game right now and are actually in need of nerfs.

[orochi1017]

Command is the same as SFIV. As far as I know, minus specific frames, teleport properties seemed very much the same as SFIV.

So he uses 3p and 3k? That’s very strange because it possibly overlaps with V-Reversals.

Not really, since those only happen in blockstun (and Sim doesn’t have a 3K one as well btw). Isn’t Gief’s Lariat 3 buttons too? Not sure if his V-Reversal is punches or kicks (not sure what a pelvic thrust falls under)

Command is the same as SFIV. As far as I know, minus specific frames, teleport properties seemed very much the same as SFIV.

So is Yoga Flame still HCB command?

Yes. Even though my Sim experience mostly comes from ST, it’s welcome because of the command overlap with Fire.

[Metroxylon]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

[TrulyAmiracle]

Command is the same as SFIV. As far as I know, minus specific frames, teleport properties seemed very much the same as SFIV.

So he uses 3p and 3k? That’s very strange because it possibly overlaps with V-Reversals.

I think i read earlier in the thread that it’s 2 punches and dp, probably for this very reason.

[twocoins]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

you’re right…let’s not give these guys any credit… they are obviously too dumb to think outside the box or try to make him more viable…i mean wong, champ, ricki, dave, arturu are obviously playing him like SF4 sim and no other way imagined… those damn one hit wonders…it’s a mystery why they are famous pros in the first place. I’ll lmao when Iyo comes back and plays Sim like vanila SF4 Sim… what a bunch of noob knobs.

[Metroxylon]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

you’re right…let’s not give these guys any credit… they are obviously too dumb to think outside the box or try to make him more viable…i mean wong, champ, ricki, dave, arturu are obviously playing him like SF4 sim and no other way imagined… those damn one hit wonders…it’s a mystery why they are famous pros in the first place. I’ll lmao when Iyo comes back and plays Sim like vanila SF4 Sim… what a bunch of noob knobs.

For the record, I think only Art Sanchez and Filipinochamp have said he’s bad flat out. And they also leave everything to the imagination regarding that. So why can’t I be defensive a little bit toward their expertise? I never said they’re bad players, but we’re not even day 1 in SF5 so nobody should feel entitled to give their impressions about a new character just because they aren’t doing well with them, or the character isn’t how they imagined he’d be.

[DevilJin_01]

Dhalsim is way too abstract of a character now to make sweeping judgments on how good or bad he is. It’s just something top players are known for doing and it’s really easy to do on twitter when you only have 160 characters to say what you want. Might as well say something short and sweeping to get a point across and get retweets and favorites.

It reminds me of when Rico Suave played Kan Ra for a few weeks on stream, more or less said he didn’t feel that great and now the character is still a nightmare for people and regularly top 8s even though he has had laundry lists of nerfs that would make SFV Ryu look pretty alright in comparison. A character made like SFV Dhalsim you can’t just make sweeping assumptions on like that. Doesn’t work like that. It’s like messing around with Vanilla SFIV Viper for a few hours, not knowing how any of her execution works and seeing how bad her normals are and just going “yup not that great, she won’t go far”.

I agree with the people saying that he just needs some normal improvements. That makes a lot of sense since now he’s a fireball evasion character instead of a fireball war character. He needs some way to adjust himself in the midrange effectively with his normals. That alone will most likely get him to where he needs to be considering otherwise he is a very sandbox character ATM. You give too much too fast to a sandbox character like SFV Sim or KI Kan Ra and then everyone is bitching all the time about how they can do everything and control way too much real estate in the match.

Just the sweeping judgments about him being bad I can’t go for, regardless of who’s saying it.

[Metroxylon]

Dhalsim is way too abstract of a character now to make sweeping judgments on how good or bad he is. It’s just something top players are known for doing and it’s really easy to do on twitter when you only have 160 characters to say what you want. Might as well say something short and sweeping to get a point across and get retweets and favorites.

It reminds me of when Rico Suave played Kan Ra for a few weeks on stream, more or less said he didn’t feel that great and now the character is still a nightmare for people and regularly top 8s even though he has had laundry lists of nerfs that would make SFV Ryu look pretty alright in comparison. A character made like SFV Dhalsim you can’t just make sweeping assumptions on like that. Doesn’t work like that. It’s like messing around with Vanilla SFIV Viper for a few hours, not knowing how any of her execution works and seeing how bad her normals are and just going “yup not that great, she won’t go far”.

I agree with the people saying that he just needs some normal improvements. That makes a lot of sense since now he’s a fireball evasion character instead of a fireball war character. He needs some way to adjust himself in the midrange effectively with his normals. That alone will most likely get him to where he needs to be considering otherwise he is a very sandbox character ATM. You give too much too fast to a sandbox character like SFV Sim or KI Kan Ra and then everyone is bitching all the time about how they can do everything and control way too much real estate in the match.

Just the sweeping judgments about him being bad I can’t go for, regardless of who’s saying it.

Speaking of sweeping judgments, how about his slides to deal with fireballs? I don’t think I’ve seen any video or read any feedback about its use. Heavy slide seems faster than his far fierce, I think people are just too tentative about giving up that “valuable real estate”.

[SimSimIV]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

you’re right…let’s not give these guys any credit… they are obviously too dumb to think outside the box or try to make him more viable…i mean wong, champ, ricki, dave, arturu are obviously playing him like SF4 sim and no other way imagined… those damn one hit wonders…it’s a mystery why they are famous pros in the first place. I’ll lmao when Iyo comes back and plays Sim like vanila SF4 Sim… what a bunch of noob knobs.

For the record, I think only Art Sanchez and Filipinochamp have said he’s bad flat out. And they also leave everything to the imagination regarding that. So why can’t I be defensive a little bit toward their expertise? I never said they’re bad players, but we’re not even day 1 in SF5 so nobody should feel entitled to give their impressions about a new character just because they aren’t doing well with them, or the character isn’t how they imagined he’d be.

No, both UD and Wong has said that they feel he is incomplete too (though UD is holding back a little). Also both Art and Champ have given extensive feedback on why they think he is incomplete.

Champs attitude before CC was “I will make him work somehow” and he has tried for 3 days and come up with nothing.

And if he is not meant to be played at full screen, then why does his up close tools suck for pressure? And I do know his entire moveset.

Only way for him to work as of now IMO, is if there is something gamechanging hidden in his toolset (hope I can find something), kind of like how Rashid can cancel fireballs to v-skill.

[SimSimIV]

Dhalsim is way too abstract of a character now to make sweeping judgments on how good or bad he is. It’s just something top players are known for doing and it’s really easy to do on twitter when you only have 160 characters to say what you want. Might as well say something short and sweeping to get a point across and get retweets and favorites.

It reminds me of when Rico Suave played Kan Ra for a few weeks on stream, more or less said he didn’t feel that great and now the character is still a nightmare for people and regularly top 8s even though he has had laundry lists of nerfs that would make SFV Ryu look pretty alright in comparison. A character made like SFV Dhalsim you can’t just make sweeping assumptions on like that. Doesn’t work like that. It’s like messing around with Vanilla SFIV Viper for a few hours, not knowing how any of her execution works and seeing how bad her normals are and just going “yup not that great, she won’t go far”.

I agree with the people saying that he just needs some normal improvements. That makes a lot of sense since now he’s a fireball evasion character instead of a fireball war character. He needs some way to adjust himself in the midrange effectively with his normals. That alone will most likely get him to where he needs to be considering otherwise he is a very sandbox character ATM. You give too much too fast to a sandbox character like SFV Sim or KI Kan Ra and then everyone is bitching all the time about how they can do everything and control way too much real estate in the match.

Just the sweeping judgments about him being bad I can’t go for, regardless of who’s saying it.

I do admire your positive attitude towards Sim, and wish I shared it, honestly!

I would love to hear why you feel he is too abstract and deep to be figured out fast? Viper has super jump cancels, feints, FADC etc. I don’t see the same tools of potential in SFV Sim. I am a true lab monster. I have broken games after analysing and theory fighting, and I can not see it. The tools with potential really arent there (they are there, but too limited by frame data to have enough potential.

This is all my opinion, and I would love to get confronted with information that says otherwise! I mean it!

[Metroxylon]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

you’re right…let’s not give these guys any credit… they are obviously too dumb to think outside the box or try to make him more viable…i mean wong, champ, ricki, dave, arturu are obviously playing him like SF4 sim and no other way imagined… those damn one hit wonders…it’s a mystery why they are famous pros in the first place. I’ll lmao when Iyo comes back and plays Sim like vanila SF4 Sim… what a bunch of noob knobs.

For the record, I think only Art Sanchez and Filipinochamp have said he’s bad flat out. And they also leave everything to the imagination regarding that. So why can’t I be defensive a little bit toward their expertise? I never said they’re bad players, but we’re not even day 1 in SF5 so nobody should feel entitled to give their impressions about a new character just because they aren’t doing well with them, or the character isn’t how they imagined he’d be.

No, both UD and Wong has said that they feel he is incomplete too (though UD is holding back a little). Also both Art and Champ have given extensive feedback on why they think he is incomplete.

Champs attitude before CC was “I will make him work somehow” and he has tried for 3 days and come up with nothing.

And if he is not meant to be played at full screen, then why does his up close tools suck for pressure? And I do know his entire moveset.

Only way for him to work as of now IMO, is if there is something gamechanging hidden in his toolset (hope I can find something), kind of like how Rashid can cancel fireballs to v-skill.

Exactly. It could be that there’s something in his game that nobody has noticed yet because people are too busy figuring out his differences and similarities to really explore anything new that could be there. Dhalsim is a cryptic fucker. If I were at a SF5 beta station and I was playing him, I’d be doing way more feint drills just to see how players deal with them. That’s something it seems like no pro level Sim player understands aside from AfroCole. You gotta have a fake-out game to get your damage.

[DevilJin_01]

Dhalsim is way too abstract of a character now to make sweeping judgments on how good or bad he is. It’s just something top players are known for doing and it’s really easy to do on twitter when you only have 160 characters to say what you want. Might as well say something short and sweeping to get a point across and get retweets and favorites.

It reminds me of when Rico Suave played Kan Ra for a few weeks on stream, more or less said he didn’t feel that great and now the character is still a nightmare for people and regularly top 8s even though he has had laundry lists of nerfs that would make SFV Ryu look pretty alright in comparison. A character made like SFV Dhalsim you can’t just make sweeping assumptions on like that. Doesn’t work like that. It’s like messing around with Vanilla SFIV Viper for a few hours, not knowing how any of her execution works and seeing how bad her normals are and just going “yup not that great, she won’t go far”.

I agree with the people saying that he just needs some normal improvements. That makes a lot of sense since now he’s a fireball evasion character instead of a fireball war character. He needs some way to adjust himself in the midrange effectively with his normals. That alone will most likely get him to where he needs to be considering otherwise he is a very sandbox character ATM. You give too much too fast to a sandbox character like SFV Sim or KI Kan Ra and then everyone is bitching all the time about how they can do everything and control way too much real estate in the match.

Just the sweeping judgments about him being bad I can’t go for, regardless of who’s saying it.

I do admire your positive attitude towards Sim, and wish I shared it, honestly!

I would love to hear why you feel he is too abstract and deep to be figured out fast? Viper has super jump cancels, feints, FADC etc. I don’t see the same tools of potential in SFV Sim. I am a true lab monster. I have broken games after analysing and theory fighting, and I can not see it. The tools with potential really arent there (they are there, but too limited by frame data to have enough potential.

This is all my opinion, and I would love to get confronted with information that says otherwise! I mean it!

Right. Dhalsim has his own form of that. He may not initially be as execution heavy as Viper, but things like his Yoga Float and the applications for his arcing yoga fire are going to take a long while to figure out. It’s pretty obvious at this point that a lot of his game is going to be built around the Yoga Float and there probably will be some positional, footsie and executional based tactics around it that will take more than just a few days grinding at Capcom Cup with a million other things going on.

If you’re a true lab monster then you’re exactly the type of person that needs to sit down with this character when he hits the 3rd beta and crack him out. Just hearing out what a few of the pros say on twitter without any heavy play time and doing a lot of over relating his techniques to SFIV Sim isn’t going to get a whole lot done. Dhalsim is the exact type of character you need a lot of people cracking out during a beta to really figure out. He’s going to need a lot of different minds working and creating vids and tech to show what he’s really about.

Two or 3 veteran Sim players who have a big attachment to classic Sim play isn’t going to bring out all of the possibilities or theory behind this character. Someone who has never even touched Sim until now could find something big with him.

Oh and just to point out for reference, Arturo made an earlier tweet basically saying that **he doesn’t even know how to play the game yet. **

https://twitter.com/nycfurby/status/660250241636134912

Meaning he probably has had very little to no time with SFV as a whole. Most likely in preparation for Capcom Cup. Apparently he said he is out of chances to get in Capcom Cup so maybe this will get him to further focus on SFV and really crack the game next beta. Being brought an entirely new Dhalsim while barely even knowing how the game works on a basic level is not a good recipe to crack out a character like this.

We all haven’t truly “learned” SFV yet, but it sounds like he has barely grasped how it works even in a basic sense. Still a lot of time for him and everyone else.

[mykka]

He’s been pretty bad for so long that you almost forget he was top tier in Alpha 3. I wonder what made him so good in that game? Any Dhalsim imput on that one?

[Easilyn]

i think sim is strong as fuck and people just aren’t playing him right. same goes for bison. they are easily the two best chars in the game right now and are actually in need of nerfs.

They don’t need nerfs.

Or buffs. They need to do another 3 betas. Dhalsim will be complete by then.
A nother 2 betas will fix sim right up.

[Metroxylon]

Here we go. The move breakdown I was waiting for.

Some thoughts on Dhalsim in SFV. I played him a bunch and talked to lot of...

[Sephiroth73003]

He’s been pretty bad for so long that you almost forget he was top tier in Alpha 3. I wonder what made him so good in that game? Any Dhalsim imput on that one?

Can’t air block grounded moves, decent on block CC, able to cancel his anti-airs into fireballs meaning getting anti-aired gave him a lot of control in the match, anti-airs were really good especially since no one had a divekick. He had CC activations as a reversal also and in that game that is the only type of a reversal that matters. Teleport out of the corner options to full screen away.

Example match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4SVNYLSAI

Honestly none of the cast has a solid approach option on him. It was way harder to get close to him then in 4 and if you did it wasn’t GG for him by any stretch of the imagination.

[DevilJin_01]

ST Sim and A3 Sim were definitely the strongest Sims. A3 Sim was already pretty damn strong in A/Z ism and that still isn’t as strong as V ism which makes him even stronger. He’s one of the few characters you could probably use in any ism and whoop on a lot of the cast.

Here we go. The move breakdown I was waiting for.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/3ramnx/some_thoughts_on_dhalsim_in_sfv_i_played_him_a/

This is a more detailed confirmation of what I already theorized. He explains that Yoga Float is a BIG part of Sim’s gameplay. Like I was saying earlier, Yoga Float allows Dhalsim to be in an area of the screen that normally isn’t possible for most SF characters to even be in. It also allows him to move faster than his walk or dash speed. ALSO apparently ANY attack he lands during Yoga Float adds to the V Gauge. Meaning attacking during Yoga Float is the primary way to get your V Revesals and V Trigger. Now it makes sense why Arturo was bullying that Ryu player with just super basic applications of Yoga Float.

Air Yoga Flame seems like it’s safe on block and will probably work like Kan Ra’s scarabs where it’s an anti-anti air.

You’re pretty much better off being a full blown anime game player putting this new Sim together. Will have a better mindset and way to approach with him. Typical SF Sim approach to this character won’t get you very far with this Sim. That looks to be the reality and is why I’m extremely interested in him. It allows Dhalsim to still control a lot of space while doing it in a way that he probably only came close to doing in Marvel 2. ** He is perplexing pretty much every veteran Sim player that has touched him which confirms this is a VERY VERY new character.**

[twocoins]

I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.

What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.

A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.

People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.

If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.

…

I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.

Do you even know what his entire normal set is? Cuz I don’t, but I also think these Dhalsim veterans aren’t playing new Dhalsim right. I really don’t think he’s meant to be played as a full screen keep away character. Necro definitely wasn’t because parry was a threat even at full screen for certain characters. So your best chance was to stay close where your moves had less recovery.

Again, I think it’s garbage to say Dhalsim is incomplete. I think people are just so used to Dhalsim being a full screen zoning character, and what all that entails, they aren’t innovating on alternative ways to play him. People are saying he’s bad because they’re suffering some dissonance between what was and what currently is.

you’re right…let’s not give these guys any credit… they are obviously too dumb to think outside the box or try to make him more viable…i mean wong, champ, ricki, dave, arturu are obviously playing him like SF4 sim and no other way imagined… those damn one hit wonders…it’s a mystery why they are famous pros in the first place. I’ll lmao when Iyo comes back and plays Sim like vanila SF4 Sim… what a bunch of noob knobs.

For the record, I think only Art Sanchez and Filipinochamp have said he’s bad flat out. And they also leave everything to the imagination regarding that. So why can’t I be defensive a little bit toward their expertise? I never said they’re bad players, but we’re not even day 1 in SF5 so nobody should feel entitled to give their impressions about a new character just because they aren’t doing well with them, or the character isn’t how they imagined he’d be.

No, both UD and Wong has said that they feel he is incomplete too (though UD is holding back a little). Also both Art and Champ have given extensive feedback on why they think he is incomplete.

Champs attitude before CC was “I will make him work somehow” and he has tried for 3 days and come up with nothing.

And if he is not meant to be played at full screen, then why does his up close tools suck for pressure? And I do know his entire moveset.

Only way for him to work as of now IMO, is if there is something gamechanging hidden in his toolset (hope I can find something), kind of like how Rashid can cancel fireballs to v-skill.

i agree with you… i think it’s funny how people assume these tourney level player are not smart enough to get out of SF4 mode…when they are proven to be high level players outside SF4…not only that FilipinoChamp had 4 hours…and we had extensive time with the beta so we know better about how mechanics will work than we done with past fighters. I also doubt they are all keeping notes, strategy and thoughts to themselves as i’m sure they tried exchanging ideas on HOW he’s meant to be played. To me it’s obvious how he’s meant to be played…grey damage the hell out of people… build flame carpet and do the same and whittle people down, while his footsies is probably more dependent on his v-skill… but right now his normals are subpar and his v-skill is too slow to be much of a serious threat… Sim is basically the zoning - anti zoner… his tools mostly revolve around going around other zoners and zoners are pretty underwhelming as is. But what about the characters with strong anti-zoning options, great jabs, super ridiculous normals and crush counters. They will eat him alive.

[twocoins]

He’s been pretty bad for so long that you almost forget he was top tier in Alpha 3. I wonder what made him so good in that game? Any Dhalsim imput on that one?

Can’t air block grounded moves, decent on block CC, able to cancel his anti-airs into fireballs meaning getting anti-aired gave him a lot of control in the match, anti-airs were really good especially since no one had a divekick. He had CC activations as a reversal also and in that game that is the only type of a reversal that matters. Teleport out of the corner options to full screen away.

Example match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4SVNYLSAI

Honestly none of the cast has a solid approach option on him. It was way harder to get close to him then in 4 and if you did it wasn’t GG for him by any stretch of the imagination.

he also looks ridiculously fast outside of walk speed. Which is always a big plus… the thing about Sim in SFV is that they added all this animation to make him look cooler and more fluid, but surely it’s at the cost of frame data…also yeah canceling anti air into projectile seems pretty big.