Yeah the more i see of him the more he reminds me of Amane, long reaching normals and lots of air options, plus an odd projectile that covers odd angles (ground drill with Amane, arcing fireball with SFV sim).
His jump looks even floatier than sf4 tho which is not a good sign… Especially without yoga sniper.
Can he cancel any air normals into v-skill, teleport or air yoga flame? If he can I can kinda see what they were going for, especially if you can do stuff like air normal > vskill > drill or another air normal.
Maybe they can give him a straight projectile but have it stay still, like Kan ra’s bugs or Amane’s drill, so doing an advancing special/normal isn’t free once you’re close enough.
I’d be bored as dirt if Sim’s fireball game was nearly a copy/paste of characters like Gouken, Urien, Oro. With these characters there’s even a significant compromise to them having all different angles of fireballs. Gouken’s compromise was not having any instant 2 hit EX without a full charge. Oro’s compromise was that his fireballs were sonic boom motion and he couldn’t really get any combo off of landing it as an anti air or otherwise. Urien’s compromise was that his fireball recovery is seriously terrible. You couldn’t throw upward fireballs at anybody without risking some dash-in punish, or a straight super punish.
What I’m liking of what I’ve seen of Sim’s normal set is how it seems to resemble Necro’s way more than I expected when I saw the reveal trailer, or ever anticipated to be adjusted by Capcom. This leads me to my next point: If you want to be good with SF5 Sim (my hypothesis), you have to be proficient with his normal set. In 3S, I’ve found application for every single one of Necro’s normals and command normals. He’s as opposite to a one-button-wonder as it can get.
A lot of the time, the normals you use depend on match ups, and meter availability for other characters. Some normals were total garbage in certain match ups, and shouldn’t even be thought of to use. This is how I feel about Dhalsim’s current fireball design. You use it in setups/knockdowns or when it becomes less expected. Like if you’re not throwing fireballs, instead using his best zoning normals, sticking to the air, and staying at a good distance away. His fireballs are one of those things people can look at and say “Yeah I can react to that and punish it” but when you build anticipation to the point where the other person gives up on looking for it, and THEN do it, that’s when these so called “bad tools” prove themselves to be good.
People just aren’t used to SF5 Sim at all, and I doubt a tournament environment is a great place to really get to the core of Sim’s game when it’s likely a player wouldn’t get much time on the game, or be able to go very many rounds to discover his entire moveset. And all this talk I’ve read about Sim not having a mid-range game seems like total garbage to me. I just don’t believe it. In time I feel like people will discover Sim’s mid-range game will be better than his full screen game.
Eh, I prefer the EX to multihit like it does now to use for lockdown. Throwing out all 3 just creates a temporary wall of crap.
Also:
[details=Spoiler]Dear Capcom,
Let Dhalsim use Yoga Blast/Flame while his fireball is out. It was cute when he had a horizontal projectile, but now he kind of needs that ability to preemptively keep people out of his face.
Sincerely, just5[/details]
why are people acting like SFV is some deep game. It’s not like Dhalsim changed as much as Charlie… His conceptual gameplan is basically the same…he’s not some rushdown character all of a sudden. He gains/loses combo here and there, some of his normals changed so you use those differently (obviously)…he has a new new special moves/setups that make him reach his goals a bit different (zoning/setups) but his concept remains unchanged…then there are many things against dhalsims gameplan…with game stages are smaller, wakeup is more free (loss of inv backdash and focus)…alot of characters have anti-projectile/anti-zoning tools… I guess people think his frame data is gonna change and people will glitch him to having some new tech…seriously dhalsim is cherry coke.
*also FilipinoChamp had 4 hours with the game? Do people really think he’s just trying to play him with the exact same combos and pokes? Any tournament player who hasn’t found anything worthwhile in 4 hours must be trolling us all apparently.
anyways, if some of u think he’s fine and we’re missing something, well, i guess that means capcom thinks he’s been in the oven long enough and wont see any changes…but many people think he’s weak, many proven tournament people think he’s weak…and many intelligent theory fighters tested many things that don’t work…for those of us think he needs more, we’re discussing it now so it doesn’t become ignored upon release. I don’t see how people get all defensive for discussing initial concerns with dhalsim. And i’ll likely not main him, i want people want him to be happy with him.
This is the problem we’re having though. Only a select few have been able to try out Dhalsim, and therefore they think they can speak from a position of authority before any true general consensus has been reached. He’s by-design a zoning character. So you gotta be on point with all your buttons to win. He’s always going to have a weak wake-up game. Back dash in SF4 didn’t help him a whole lot because of sweep OS’s etc. Not many characters in SF5 are going to have good wake-up options. Even uppercut isn’t going to be some guaranteed wake-up option. I’ll respect wake-up DP only when I see it.
And as I’ve stated in some other thread, SF5 is going to encourage players to use V-reversal when the chips are down. Sim’s is pretty good as it applies gray life and gives him screen advantage. I think if he seems weak is because any blocked far screen normal he does will also apply white life which is a huge change to his design. And I think that was a big thing Capcom/Dimps considered in how they’ve changed Dhalsim. No focus attack, limited armor moves and reversal-style EX are all beneficial to Dhalsim keeping his game plan.
His heavy slide now is crazy fast which gives him a much more threatening high/low game despite yoga sniper being MP rather than HP. So again, I think it’s too early to tell if Dhalsim is weak or not. But I’m also looking forward to trying him out as he is before any “necessary changes” are made.
Art recorded a lot of SFV this weekend. His Sim was fun to watch by day 3. I’m sure you guys will enjoy the footage he got.
Or the character, y’know, might be different enough that 4 hours ain’t shit. It was a limited number of setups, so 4 hours of playtime doesn’t mean much.
4 hours with a character that has a moveset that has never been seen in SF or most fighting games before? Yeah, you can be Jesus and not much is getting done in 4 hours.
If you want to be good with Sim in any game he’s ever been in, you have to be proficient with his normal set. That is so basic I assumed it went without saying.
Sim has 40 normals in SFIV and each of those normals has a use. Out of all of them, I’d have to say that his st.lk is the most important because of how useful it is in the midrange. It allows Sim to keep opponets in check outdide of his b.lk and b.mk range, while having enough recovery on st.lk to be able to react to jump in attempts. He doesn’t have this in SFV. There is a huge deadzone outside of b.mk range where a single st.mk, st.mp, or st.hk can easily be jumped in on.
He also gets outzoned by many characters outside b.mk range because his meduim and heavy normals are either too slow, risky, slow recovery, etc. You see this in the FChamp sets and every other Sim vid.
Just because his moveset resembles Necro’s, doesn’t mean it’s as good as Necro’s. He has no equivalent to st.mp or st.mk and all of his close normals are inferior not to mention a lower mobility through walkspeed and dashes.
I don’t want to changes to his fireball. The only thing I want is a few more normals to round out his move set because myself and many Sim players feel he is incomplete.
So yeah, everyone’s tweeted their impressions and such so I can’t much to that other than Champ saying he and Art were head of the Dhalsim players support group lol.
Ricki’s impression of Sim was that he’s ok, and Justin and Champ were debating with her about it.
I don’t feel qualified to give a personal one, I didn’t put nearly as much time into him.
Some facts I didn’t see or notice in this thread (but might have been in the videos):
99% sure super is a true reversal.
V-Skill can be aimed when done on the ground, and Sim will stretch forward or backward from his original position before floating.
Standing HP can go under fireballs.
Overall, while it is early, and the feedback not good for the most part, again note that balance for the first version is not final and things may still change regardless.
