version 2012, no gouken footage yet, maybe during the sunday stream.
[COLOR=#01518e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHaXIfqMcxE[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#01518e]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kXIndHVcc8[/COLOR]
You’re right, Ultra meter will have no effect. Damage is dependent on what level you charge and speed is universal, so?
Yay!? Imagine if you could land two level 5’s in one game lol.
I guess you all just might have a reason to use Denjin now?
I think Bullcat is good, I think he would be better with another character.
I think there is no one good enough playing him to win Evo.
First and foremost comes player skill. Then come the character attributes i.e. what they bring to the table for the players.
So when you have one of these top players, they choose characters by what each character can bring to their game.
I think it is pretty clear that Gouken as a character does not have as many options as some characters so when you are playing someone of equal skill you look for every advantage you can get, and unfortunately, advantages come in the form of characters. The best players in the world look at Gouken and do not see him as one of the characters offering significant advantages, therefore they don’t play him.
You have people who play Gouken in tournaments but perhaps their players skill is not as high as some people they face and then to boot they play against a character that has significant advantages not even including the player skill gap.
My personal opinion is that Gouken has too many holes in his defense for a top player to take notice for a tournament.
I played some dude at Next Level and he used Blanka. His reactions were unreal. I seriously couldn’t flip on him with out getting jump back hp and I couldn’t throw a fireball without getting slid on. I would throw one fireball in the round and he would react and slide. Crazy. I was really amazed with his reactions. When I see people like that, I realize that playing someone like Daigo must be similiar.
So lets take Yun vs Gouken.
Gouken gets knocked down.
On his wakeup vs Yun, Yun can simply just abuse c.lk on Gouken wakeup if he wants to. You have to use low counter or Ex counter, anything else is going to get you punished. You get 150 damage for this, but what can Yun do if he baits you? He need only wait to see the counter to go into a full out max punish (not talking xbox live here talking people who have ridic reactions and skills). This is just one example of a hole other characters don’t have to suffer through, some top characters do but then they have ridiculous damage and mixups to make up for it (viper), or really solid footsies or whatever. The point is Gouken is offensively limited, we all know this. He struggles to open people up. His normals are a tad bit slow to punish minor mistakes which is how you get your damage at high levels right?
Just think about it.
Is he solid? Sure. Is he good enough? No. Are most characters good enough? No.
He is playable, you can win games, but I just doubt you are going to be winning tournaments on the regular with him, and that’s ok.
We play him cause we like him, we play him because we see potential, or we like his moveset or whatever your reason is. All of us have played him for long enough though to know why he won’t regularly win tournaments and basically that reason is while there may be some potential he just doesn’t have ENOUGH over certain other characters for the best in the world to pick him up.
EDIT: I just want to say that we ourselves are the only source of Gouken tech, if we find anything we should always share so that other people might look at it and say Ok I think I can do something with that.
I made that sheet about something as simple as Ultra with FADC and St.HP/c.hp xx tatsu combos. If any of you have stuff like that to share, just do it. Any general tips such as dash EX tatsu after full screen fireballs, share it. We should make a thread with all the general purpose tips and character specific combos and set ups.
Takin I know you are always talking about crossup flip setups against certain characters using different normals, I’d love for you to share that. I’ve tried to figure it out but I always come up with whiffs when I try to find a character it will work on.
We really need to pool all our knowledge together cause we aren’t going to have TOkido to spoon feed us setups to live off of.
Charging simply stocks an additional fireball hit each level, so I believe ultra meter would still affect damage.
^^^^ that being said, some random Gouken beat Daigo’s Yun, it was posted in our forum not too long ago…
You could write me a book and i still wouldnt agree with you.
edit: come to think of it, it was daigos ryu actually but still im not budging on my position.
Try answering your own question then? Why aren’t Goukens winning tournaments? In order to disagree you have to have an opinion of your own (if you already answered it I apologize, I didn’t read the whole back and forth between you and Immortal)
I’m not being a dick, I’m being quite serious. I told you why I though he wasn’t winning tournaments. Now you tell me why he isn’t.
The one thing you can’t disagree on is that Gouken isn’t winning tournaments.
Also, some random dude beating Daigo once proves nothing, you can’t honestly put that out there as a reason for Gouken to be tournament viable. Where is this video from anyway? I’ve never seen it.
I said he could win. Just not consistently.
Poongko perfected Daigo in front of the world, then lost 22-8 a couple of weeks later. Consistency. Any character can win a game.
So since our answers are not agreeable you tell us why he isn’t winning tournaments.
You stated my point for me …any character can win a game. Just like the NFL any given sunday, right? you just have to have your mojo poppin off extra hard I guess for evo weekend. I wish I had a better answer for you.
HAHAHAHA I love it!
That should be the reason why he wins lol
I’m not going to bother trying to convince you anymore.
That’s a reason to win if anything.
no worries im ignant i suppose or foolhardy. stay up. Peace
Winning a “game” does not mean winning a tournament, you are seriously confusing the two. Not sure if you noticed but almost all teams in the NFL win at least one game a season (GG Detroit), they still have no hope of winning the super bowl since they have no consistency.
You stil haven’t answered why Gouken isn’t winning any tournaments (which is a very simple fact). Gouken has won no majors. Now you answer why.
Have any of the “new” characters won any tournaments? Perhaps his potential is still being discovered.
the closest goukens to win a major are: shine and jug both made it to GF then lost. granted it was vs sanford and arturo. those are the closest that I have seen.
Just play percentages.
You have no 100% on cwake up, even with 3 bars. Akuma has a 100% on wake up with three bars, even with no bars he can cover everything but blocking with just srk.
On a knockdown what do you have on your opponent? Xup, an overhead tht leads nowhere, tick throw and that’s it.
Just run down the list of tourney winning characters and just compare options alone. If nothing else people are playing the percentages.
This isn’t even a debate.
Fact: Gouken doesn’t win majors
You can disgree over why but the end is still the same. No one talented enough plays him. The next question is why?
So disagree all you want, you still need to answer these questions. I’m waiting to hear a different theory.
Those are not even Major. Those tournaments only had a hundred or so people.
I play Gouken with people like Air in medium sized tournament in person about 3 times now (Yes I run into him in bracket pretty much every time). Fought Wolfkrone and Hugo101 and a few other player in online tournment. I can tell you now, fighting top player is different. They don’t give Gouken a chance. a 4:6 disadvantage doesn’t seem like much online, but turning into a best of 3 set when money is on the line, and you will feel the different immediately.
If you keep saying Gouken can win tournament, then I would like to ask you to try play some top player first, then see if you feel the same way I feel.
Currently. I don’t think you even realize how good the top player are. Through the screen, you only sense their reaction time, combo, and footis. When you are fighting them, you will start feeling their read, their position, their zoning and psychological warfare and how they limit your options. In high end play, 4:6 become a huge factor. When it is a best of 3 sets and in bracket set up, you can not relies on grimack and only 2 bad match up will throw you out. You are not just playing the game and fighting someone random, you are fighting someone who have a increasingly long wining streak and someone who is truly dominating among majority of the player in this community. Ever play Endless and see someone with 4000pp+ having a 10 game winning streak? Those player will still lose to any of those player, and that is just top 32.
Well he claims he plays a lot of the top players in California and that he can hang/keep up…
Not saying that I believe him though.
GOUKEns that play in tourneys dont come here to this forum and likewise this forum doesnt participate in majors or quals for the most part.You’ll say because he doesn’t have the tools, so no one likes him which is subjective. But in reality no one wants to help each other through this shit since he isnt a total package fighter from first glance were left to reach out as some do in this very forum. Like it or not we need to share what we know to make us all better. Since all the answers arent built right in We know hes not like all the other boys mom. We get it…We were dealt a bad hand we get that too.
Everyone uses the same ingredients to make spaghetti for the most part but why then do some dishes taste worlds apart from others? Technique.
Im a firm believer that if we break down our walls, put our shit out there and give our best effort to one another as a community such as Raun did in vanilla with a mission statement of “self-improvement critiques welcome”(paraphrased), like many have done with dojos or find a training partner threads, these projects were meant to be didactic as well as a means for self-enrichment. So why arent more of us doing this anymore?
If they made him tourney viable in your eyes, Im sure it would differ from someone elses idea, shit it may be similar to others as we recently voted and saw for ourselves, but if he was given all those “tools” and guys like you didnt take a major home that same season then what would you have to say for yourself? What would you say to the community if he was officially tourney viable in your book and Team Gouken didnt take a title home?
Or are you down for the struggle and just want to see another one of us make it? If so lets all link the fuck up and auto-correct this wayward as bitch of a boat ride!
So consistency and technique is why Gouken is not taking home a major…Thank you Apollo !!!
@ immort4l you bitter little man I dont use my online presence in this forum as a grandstanding platform, and yeah with my limited technical knowledge (frame data and certain execution techniques) I would daily and or weekly play the norcal clicks at the couple golflands when AE was not on console yet and yeah to my surprise I could hang. So shoot me! except vs Roms Yang since the matchup was new to me. Was i supposed to document it just for your approval?
Since then Ive been inspired to believe that if I and we collectively aim to advance ourselves instead of discrediting one another or living out some spiteful dislike for people we dont even know then yeah we could all surprise ourselves with a little more hard work, wheres the harm in that?
Why are you such a hater anyways? is it genetic? Do you have male and female genitalia? Are you an orphan ? you seem to have some real socialization issues and it just seems like your plagued by a disdain for the very community you calim to be a part of. Just my thoughts.
This message will self-destruct.
I know it was a bit much at the end there but your little bitch of an attitude along with me and a couple beers is just too much fun not to talk shit about! LOL no hard feelings!
Well, the argument here is that on one hand, I think Gouken is not viable enough. Backed up by the fact that there have been no Gouken winning major (or even medium ) tournament. On your hand, you think Gouken is viable enough because… you believe in him.
This is starting to feel like a scientist talking to a priest about the existent of god.
I think you need first understand that we are not here to diss gouken, some of us been putting up years on him already since SF4V. Before you start dishing out and pulling various things about people not working hard enough on him. Why don’t you turn that around and say why we should be working harder then other people? You see ONE person going the round making video, and you are thinking the rest of the community are all working harder then any Gouken player? This is bullshit and you know it.
“Hey guys watch me random out bullcat in this lag infested set! He sure was easy pickings”. “I know where I stand on the food chain, and all I gotta say is it’s cold up here lol”. STFU, your gouken is trash. Perhaps you could show where I’ve shown any disdain for anyone on this board aside from you. It’s not so much that I’m a hater, but I find it funny that a player of your low caliber has the audacity to act like some sort of authority. The only capacity that you could really contribute to this forum is in a “critique my gouken” one, because to be frank you’re random as hell, and your gameplay is predicated on bs.