Wait. it is -3 on hit. Not +3. 不利 Means disadvantage not advantage. Sorry for the mistake
edit: Goddammit
Well then… Wait so fucking 1 frame was the difference between all those misses and hits? Lazy ass bastards.
Sorry for the disappointment. 
Also, sorry to bother everything, but is it just me or am I in crazy world?
from SSF4 AE v2012 - Official Akuma Changes Discussion
Does this only make no sense to me? Or is this the definition this community have always been using when they talk about 50/50 situation?
-3 on hit could also mean they increased hitstun and recovery at the same time, or they increased hitstun by 1f and at the sametime reduced the pushback. I don’t think the EX Palm combo problem was caused by only 1 frame. If it was, it would mean cl.st.MP -> cr.HP xx MP Palm (or HP Palm after 2012) will still not be a combo on some characters, since EX starts dashing faster than MP.
He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, it has nothing to do with what the opponent is likely to do, it’s only about what his options are.
50/50 just means that there the aggressor has two options that counter everything that the defender can do at that situation. Everything else is moot.
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… isnt up to us the community to put him where he needs to be, if its in a tourney then thats our responsibility to go out and enter, what does getting attention drawn to him do for his benefit and how does that make him more tourney viable?
Not really, no. If the character is strong he will be played, especially at tourneys. It’s not that goukens don’t enter, it’s that he’s at a clear disadvantage. Bullcat enters tournaments, he doesn’t win though. And by getting attention he’s refering to the devs actually caring enough to not just fix stuff that should already be done but make him a better character, compensate for some of his shortcomings because right now he has many. Look at the attention cody got and then compare them to dudley(one of these characters got signifantly more buffs than the other). Look at the attention Hakkan gets because he has the stigma for beign a horrible character, the devs actually went out of their way to not just add a frame here or there, They accomadated the character so he could stand a fighting chance.
I’m not saying gouken doesn’t have a fighting chance though, I remain cautiously optimistic.
so when these tourney Gouken lose are they losing to things like akuma palm loops etc? or are they just being outplayed?
you get what im sayin ? i mean does everyone think bullcat would take evo if gouken had hitconfirm off jab? i doubt its that simple
They are losing because he’s not very good. Outplayed doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things when a lot of the tourney heavy characters are the ones that have an advantage over him. The end result for tourney players, and not ones dedicated to their character is to select a character who has doesn’t have to work as hard for wins or a character with better tools.
I just cant accept that as an answer. my appologies friend.
That’s fine man, but just keep in mind that their are players, very good players who were drawn to Gouken, ones that are better than you or I and they all ultimately dropped him. This is pretty telling, but don’t get me wrong it is very much possible to be successful with him, but it requires harder work than some.
I just havent seen any footage of someone owning Gouken at tourneys. Better yet i havent seen his “on paper” weaknesses being exploited in tourney play is what im getting at. I dont feel ive been given definitive proof is all im sayin/.
I think you haven’t seem them cause they all get owned too early in the tourney to get into stream / youtube.
Well, I found out this only after seeing the dev blog, but Gouken’s Denjin charging time was dependent on his Ultra meter (the more meter he has, the faster denjin gets charged). The start-up on wiki is only when his meter was full, and when his meter was lower than that, he charged slower. After AE2012, denjin charge time is universal across the board, equal to the charge time when he has 75% Ultra meter currently. Denjin charges slower, but only when Gouken has more than 75% filled meter compared to the current version. If he has less than 75%, then he charges faster than now. Applies only to level 3, level 4, and level 5 Denjin.
So in AE, the more ultra meter gouken has, the faster denjin charges.
In v2012, Denjin charges like if AE denjin had 75%.
I think thats what it is.
Sry for not stating it clearly. This news was new to me as well.
In AE 2012, the charge time is being universal across the board, and the new universal charging time will be the charging time when you have 75% ultra meter in AE.
In AE, you charge the fastest when you have 100% meter, and charge the slowest when you have 50%.
So, in AE 2012, if you have 100% meter, you will charge slower than when you have 100% meter now.
However, if you have 50% meter in AE 2012, you will charge faster than when you have 50% meter right now.
EDIT: Amigo got it. His explanation is much simpler.
If you always save for full Ultra, then it’ll be generally slower for you.
However, charging time based on meter changes for level 3, 4, and 5, so if you use level 2, it doesn’t matter much.
I don’t really mess with denjin enough to see if most of the time it was unleashed over or under roughly 75%. I always felt like it charged the same.
The biggest thing Im curious about denjin is that if ultra meter doesn’t affect charge time anymore, what will it affect? If it doesn’t do shit we’ll be seeing Gouken tryin to soak up as much as possible to get 2 denjins per round lol.
Anyone know the actual damage values denjin will give at each stage?