Seems like u’re fighting scrub rogs. Most rogs approach with lp dash straight (chip; can’t throw out of it) and footsies. Nobody will do far punches. Also, how good is Deejay against jab pressure?
You see him charging, you walk forward and mash some jabs, it seriously stuffs ALLL non EX dash punches + TAP. If that’s all he does then focus his ass. If he walks forward obviously you stop doing that lol. As soon as he walks forward you can jump at him, fireball him, sobat him, catch him with cr. HK. If he gets too close you back up and get some breathing room.
Jab pressure is hard, that’s why you don’t want to play him up close. I say cr. HK distance or farther.
To me Balrog isn’t scary if he can’t land a dash punch on you.
Seth
[LIST]
[]Midscreen headstomps You block the 1st hit normal, then the 2nd in the other direction.
[LIST=1]
[]If he does 2 headstomps you can jump early HP/HK towards him.
[]If he does headstomp into j. HK crossup, you can hit him before he lands with st. MK if you blocked correctly.
[]If he just does 1 headstomp you can hit him after you block with cr. HK.
[/LIST]
[]You can?t punish his wall dive headstomps, but you can meet him in the air the second you see him jump off the wall with early j. HP/HK/MP/LP or knee shot. They beat all of his head stomps, dive kicks, and his MP air juggle.
[]If he tries to head stomp you in the corner you can hit cl. MP after the 1st and 2nd head stomp to stop him, then you can jump to mix him up. Cl. MP wins/or trades in the corner, but its ok to trade with Seth.
[]You can also AA his headstomps with LK upkick, but his dive kick has different timing that his headstomps so it might be kind of hard.
[]If he teleports near you it?s a free auto correct U2, cr. MP > combo, cr. Hk, or throw.
[]Punish all versions of his DP with auto correct U2, well timed U1, cr. MP/cr. HP > combo, or cr. HK.
[]Punish all versions of his Lightning Legs with Reversal U2, Reversal U1, cr. MP/cr. HP > combo, cr. HK, reversal sobats or on whiff with cr. HK or sobats.
[]Your best bet if he sucks you in his tandem stream and you block is probably to mash backdash, or jump back. You can jump in on non EX tandem streams on reaction or EX sobat them.
[]Punish his U1 on block with Reversal HK super or reversal EX sobats if you?re in range.
[*]Punish his U2 on block with U2 if close, U1 if you?re in range (you can dash up or cr. HK then U1 if you need to get closer).
[/LIST]
I like U1 for this matchup, because you can punish everything that you can punish with U2, with U1. You can also U1 through fireballs from just outside of max cr. HK range.
Basically just watch out for his instant overhead with those long arms. Jump LP and knee shot are good against it air to air.
His offense really isn’t that safe, his teleports aren’t, his wall kicks and divekicks aren’t, if he drops a link or whiffs a shoryuken he can get punished hard. EX sobat is good against his projectiles.
That’s all I found from training. I don’t ever fight any seths offline, so I don’t have much experience.
I’m not sure if I agree with this. People aren’t scared of charge characters that hold down back. Nobody plays Balrog just holding down back unless they have a good life lead and if they’re gonna do turtle rog, you can bet they won’t make stupid mistakes like far dashes. If he walks towards you won’t your jump in lose to crouch fierce? If you fireball him, can’t he tap through it or jump in on you? DeeJay’s fireball recovery isn’t that good. Sobat is the horizontal kicks right? That’s not safe on block. If you miss cr. hk, you eat a big combo. If you keep backing up, you’ll run into the corner eventually. Balrog’s game is jab pressure, not dash punches.
Here’s a scenario: You start the first round. The Balrog does nothing but counter whatever you do on block, block your max outs, and crouching fierce your jump ins. What do you do? Sounds like to me your strategy is to back up into the corner, but that’s already a losing strategy because then you have to deal with jab pressure which you already admit is hard.
Now obviously there’s something in there that will work against Rog, but I just don’t agree that it’s as easy as you’re making it seem.
*ok fixed
What would you suggest then? Switch characters!?! lol yeah it’s all possible, yes it’s all counterable, but its like a rock paper scissors.
He can’t just do jab dash straights all day. After a blocked jab straight you can do a st. MK, it will beat all of his options except if he stays blocking. Unless he can get enough time to charge an EX dash or headbutt. You can stuff it, you can focus it, basically tell him don’t come at me like that.
His cr. HP is kind of slow, and if he’s not expecting a jump in he might not AA in time. You have 3 different speeds of fireballs to choose from + EX which i don’t think he can TAP through. If he psychic jumps your fireball then you’re being too predictable. It’s not impossible to catch people walking forward with sobats, especially if you rarely use them.
Seriously though I used to get nailed by overheads a lot, and sometimes caught off guard by dash uppers, but now I throw them on reaction because I learned how to block his stuff. You can’t tell me that won’t make it easier.
Anyone else want to talk about the Balrog matchup with us???
*edit: LK/MK sobat are safe if spaced properly. So is HK sobat (-9), but it needs to be spaced really well, and its only punishable by Rogs cr. HK (8 frames startup).
I’ll be honest with you. I’m a Bison main that alts Dee Jay so my matchup knowledge isn’t quite there yet. Bison/Balrog is 5-5, but it’s a very annoying matchup so I’d like to use a different character against him if possible. I play a few rogs and the few ones I play all do the jab pressure game. Obviously no rog is gonna do jab dash straights all day because that’s easy focus punish. When they DO use them, they’re not gonna use an attack afterwards because like you said, they’re negative on block. So while they can’t follow up the dash punch with anything, you’re not doing any damage either and you’re getting pushed closer into the corner. Oh also, Balrog can Ex-headbutt after dash punch, but that’s really a gimmick since if you don’t pull out an attack it’s easy big punish. Most good rogs know how to get around focus baiting too. I mean, I think your strategy here works, but I don’t think it’s more effective than what anyone else has. I don’t think it makes the Balrog matchup any easier.
As for the cr. hp, it is a little slow, but it’s a good move and one that rog can combo into. All good rogs will anti air you on time unless your jump in has good priority, which I’m not sure if DeeJay does. One thing that might tilt the matchup in DeeJay’s favor is the crossup game (j. mk) with knee drops put in occasionally since I imagine it’s hard to time the anti-air against a move that has different trajectories.
I think DeeJay’s fireballs recover pretty slowly, but I might be spacing them wrong. EX-fireball DOES take an hour to recover though. Most fireballs, Rog can just react to with his godlike jump in (maybe up kick beats this?). Sobat won’t catch many people walking forward since they’ll be looking for you to do an attack.
The block/throw thing against the dash punches is great though. That’s new info for me. That’d definitely make my life easier.
Well i don’t think Dee Jay has it any better against Balrog. But yes you can AA his jump in HK with LK/EX upkick easily if you have charge. You have to do it slightly earlier though, just like with blankas and vegas HK jump ins. St. HP is also good if you time it right, and you might get a counter hit juggle out of it. Cr. HK works too.
And Dee Jay has pretty decent recovery time on his fireballs, he just can’t chuck them out as fast cuz he has to charge.
Bison and Balrog may be 5-5 but they are his hardest matchups atleast for me. I think the balrog matchup is atleast 4.5-5.5 and maybe the same for bison.
onece they close in you don’t have any let me get out of here moves. sobat pressure is punished easily. Bad/decent jump-ins get beat by anti-air normals. balrog’s jab gives him amazing advantage. DeeJay can’t zone because his fireball recover isn’t that good. Its not like guile who is already charged for the next boom when the opponent blocks the first.
idk its 6:30 in the morning and canada so my thoughts are not straight or organized lol expect an edit.
Why the hell would you alt DeeJay? Bison is mad easy to use and he’s effective. Only second to balrog.
I don’t have anything constructive to add, but I’m finding all your debating pretty educational.
I’m not sure the points about some tactics only being used by scrub/awesome opponents to be terribly applicable.
If Balrog for example has a couple of easily executable and highly effective tactics, I’m probably going to lose to them whether there’s a good or bad player behind them.
Counters for any opponents tactics are great, and if I DO end up being able to counter them, I’ll let whatever my opponent does next determine if I think he’s a good or bad player.
Wow that was well put. That kind of made my day. I’m making a balrog video today because of cunning. Atleast I will if I don’t go to the movies.
Cuz he’s badass
That’s why I main him. :smokin:
Deejay’s my favorite character design in the game but its funny that somebody would want to alt him. Just alt guile. Deejay isn’t for everyone.
I don’t think you’ve fought a particularly good, or smart Balrog, but he isn’t Deejays worst matchup.
I’d say Balrog is 6-4 in Rogs favor, Bison is 5.5-4.5/6-4 universally, 8-2 in the corner all going against Deejay. If he traps you with Scissor kick shenaningans and actually knows how to play with Bison, there is a good chance he’ll kill you. Deejay fights exceptionally well with his back to the wall, unlike alot of characters, but never get cornered by Bison, Fei-Long, or the two heavy grapplers.
Eh, there is a reason to Alt Deejay, there is a legitimate argument for someone who wants a more combo effective Guile, or needs a better rushdown/offensive charge character without giving up effective defense when it comes down to it.
Deejay isn’t a bad character, and he’s the coolest we’ve got in this game. Although with rumors being what they are and us possibly getting some more dlc characters, I expect to see the already dwindling numbers to dwindle even further. (Though I doubt we’ll be as bad as Elena and Rolento are going to be.)
I know my old mains are possibly coming back (Elena, and Charlie) so I’m looking forward to see who stays when the smoke clears once again.
A lot of reasons I alt DeeJay which I’ll cover below. Bison isn’t as easy as you claim though. People think he’s easy but don’t realize all his disadvantages. His B&B is a 2 frame link for only about 120 damage. He has no anti-air. He has to get in close to do damage (thus risking being DP’d). He has no overhead and no 2 hitting move so he gets eaten up by focus attacks. He doesn’t have a reliable anti-fireball except at certain ranges. He has a really floaty jump so he’s easy to anti-air. He can’t consistently combo into Ultra against a good player. Not saying Bison doesn’t have his advantages, but he’s definitely not super easy.
Reason 1 I play DJ.
Reason 2 I play DJ. Why would I alt Guile? I don’t have fun playing Guile. DeeJay is just FUN. When you backdash, he points at you and says “Hey!”
Also, Guile’s too defensive for me. I like DeeJay’s more offensive nature. Also if I hit U2, that’s instant 43-44 hit combo =]
@Dogma, I haven’t really fought any good Balrogs recently offline, but I seriously think that I’m going to be able to fight him better now when I do play a good one.
As for Bison, I’ve fought some really good Bisons offline, and what I’ve found is that when he gets you in the corner, you just have to guess right. If he does Scissor > LK xx Scissor, you can get him with reversal LK sobat. If he does Scissor > MK/HK to poke you you can do upkicks (not reversal) to nail him. Yes, you’re at a disadvantage no matter what you do though, but all you have to do is guess right.
I find that the more offensive you go on Bison, the better, especially if you get a knockdown. I have some stuff on Bison, I’ll post it later.
I just played against a complete balrog scrub and barely beat him. I won 9 straight and they were all ridiculously close. Its like wth does deejay have against this guy that we don’t know about?. Toobad I didn’t read about the st. Mk after dash straight til after the set.
Balrog is purely for scrubs and nobody can convince me other wise. I played this guy about 20times and wrecked his other characters with high bp except balrog. Its so funny to me how anybody can be good with balrog.
LMAO its sad
We all need to hit the lab so we can try to make this match up easier for ourselves. It might come down to creating option selects.
I don’t mind taking my Balrog out for a spin if its for the sake of learning whats best to do on reaction with Deejay. It’s only about at a 2-3k level of skill though, so I’m not sure what good it’ll be. But if it helps, it helps.
im willing to help out as well. ive played Balrog before super, and I dropped him after a while realizing that Dee Jay is mad fun to play, and that Balrog players seem to have a hard time in tournaments.
Ex sobat kick beats his dash punches and boom followed by slide takes out his ex dashes. You can slide to beat his turn punch on reaction. You can also ultra 1 him on react to dash punches. What more do you want? 