DeeJay General Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
301

DJ is DJ. Basically he’s a subpar zoner, subpar vortex, with subpar pokes lol. But srsly. There’s certain maches you can get away with being overly turtley, Ryu isn’t one of them which is probably why you have trouble. Ryu like most other fireball characters beats DJ in fireball wars, meaning eventually you’re going to have to get in on him. So yes you have to go offensive. Also DJ doen’t have great reversals or tools to deal with pressure, that’s why you can’t just turtle everything.

To me DJ’s offense/pressure is just as important as his defense/zoning. And after a certain point, at high levels and when your opponent is familiar with the matchup you have to play more offensive to get that damage off the voretx. They block the right way and then what? they tech now what? You start using frame traps/tick throws/more offensive prssure/baiting/reading them and adjusting etc. thus making your offense better. Certain characters/situations you don’t want to keep the vortex going also. Like if you have the life lead, if the opponent has ultra/super, or good reversals etc. Better to just go with the good combo, get the damage, and back off and play it safe.

302

I’ve actually added a few mixup options to my vortex repertoire in order to keep high priority reversals on lock. Following a forward throw, or c. mk, I’ve been throwing a lp sobat > FADC Forward > Pause

In the pause, you’ve got a handful of options:
[LIST]
[]Knee shot (Try to hit them as they rise)> Tick throw.
[]Crossup mk > jab > jab > c.mk
[] Knee shot (Do it so you do not connect) > immediate c. mk
[] Walk forward > c. short > Tick throw.
[] Fake crossup > jab> jab > c.mk
[] Empty jump > Do nothing.
[] Empty jump > throw
[]Fake crossup > jab> jab > throw
[*]Etc
[/LIST]

I could go on and on about vortex options, but the trick here is, it makes the crossup much much safer, beating out most reversals cleanly, if timed correctly you force your opponent to not so much as hit a button.

This is extremely useful against Akuma, Seth, Sim, and Vega, as it gives a chance to better observe the teleport, and in Vega’s case, strike him back down with a c.mk link off the fireball. If the teleporters go away from you, you’ve got a slow moving projectile to follow behind and decide on what to do, AA’ing if they jump over it.

If they teleport towards you to try to get behind you, that pause can give you enough time to meet them as they stop. This goes without saying, but the only thing I’ve been stopped by so far doing this is Rose’s ultra, still time it poorly and you will eat an ultra. Time it even more poorly and move with alot of invincibility can blow right past it, the idea is to use the pause to your advantage, because you force them to burn meter and risk a hit, or risk another kd.

Is this worth the two bars? To me, yes. I’m a vortex loving Deejay, and I pray for the chance to score another knockdown, and to make it even more enticing, I don’t see this very often in Deejay play, so getting some damage off the surprise alone can make an often auto-pilot kind of match much more favorable.

On a side note, played some viper today, made me wish my execution was godlike, cause right now its shit. Looking to use her a bit more, but only for casuals right now, just want a good rushdown character that isn’t charge.

303

I suppose you meant lp fireball in your post and not sobat, because that wouldn’t make any sense. It’s definitely a nice idea, I’ll give it a try. Just one thing I don’t like about the options you listed is c short > tick throw. c short is -3 on block which doesn’t really suit ticking exactly. If it’s well timed it can go to -1 but I would prefer throwing a c jab and then tick just because of the better frames. I can’t tell if the fireball gives you the frame advantage you need to make it safe enough, if so, enlighten me.

304

@dogma, yea makes sense since the meaty fireball beat normal reversal type moves (not EX though or supers/ultras). The part I don’t like is using the 2 EX bars. If you could make the crossup super ambiguous maybe the damage off of the possible combo would make it worth the meter. You could probably bait out some Ultras or Supers, if you empty jump them.

DJ has a good vortex and pressure on knockdown without this, but maybe once in a while or in certain matchups. I wouldn’t use this against sim because you can just o-s him if he teleports, and he doesn’t have good reversals.

305

Oh man, don’t you hate how EX dreadkicks gets owned by normals?

306

which normals?

307

every normal that hits hit and some low when they are timed but nobody sees ex dread coming unless they throw a fireball so it kind of just chance im

308

Like the kind that stuffs it before the first hit comes out? Yeah.

309

a lot of them lol, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I think it’s because the invincibility is during the first kick on start up, and when you do it up close like on wakeup, the first part of the animation is cut short, which makes the invincibility shorter.

310

It sucks a lot vs Chun li and Rose. They like to keep you in a certain range where their normals can hit you and yours cant (chun li moves towards you where as rose moves away) Dee Jay’s HK gets owned by all their moves, its so sad. The only thing we do have in those fights is cl lk, but why you the move if it gets out ranged and you’re losing life in the process?

311

@dogma, I just tested some setups off of a forward throw meaty LP fireball FADC setups, and I found that after then opponent blocks the fireball, all they need to do is block a jump in. It doesn’t matter which direction they block the jump in, because either way they still block it. It will however stuff/cause a reversal DP to whiff, but that’s if they try and reversal.

I used different setups. Forward throw walk 1 step back LP fireball FADC jump, FADC walk forward a bit jump. Forward throw slight walk back meaty LP fireball FADC jump, and all of them are easily blocked (doesn’t even matter which direction as long as they’re stand blocking).

The only thing I think is worth FADC a meaty fireball is to pressure them on wakeup without risk of reversal DP (although they can still reversal after the blocked fireball or at any time). So the only plus side to it is that if they’re dumb enough to reversal DP when they see you do the setup they will get hit, and it also will stop them from backdashing (which you can stop with just o-s). Bottom line is it’s just a waste of meter, unless you can find a setup that allows an ambiguous jump in that is not blockable in both directions.

312

I guess it makes sense it falls apart under scrutiny, I can’t say I use it frequently, but I would use it when I felt it was a good time to do it. Particularly with 3 or more bars, which means i’m not hurting for meter at that point. But maybe I can find a way to perfect it in the coming weeks.

Although I have to ask how late you were doing that crossup mk.

Edit: Scratch that shit, but I’m keeping Deejay on the low for alittle.

313

fireball fadc comes in handy when you need a safe way to ensure a chip finish, or when you need to get your pressure started, a-la sonic condom.

What I mean is when you are near the end of a round, it’s a stalemate, and you want to force the opponent to do something and then react to it.

it’s not good for combos though, 99% of the time both the fireball and the followup will be blocked.

314

It’s essentially the same situation if you use a meaty fireball FADC or not. Your opponent can still mash reversals, tech your throws or w/e, it just costs 2 bars for nothing (a tiny bit of chip). I don’t think it adds to the vortex, because it leaves you in the exact same position as if you were next to them on wakeup.

315

I wouldn’t say it doesn’t add to the vortex, but I do have difficulty defending it completely. Sometimes, you’ve got to do things differently in order to come up with a win, mixing it up with tactics that your opponent doesn’t see coming is just a good way to get a reaction out of them.

I don’t have to tell you how good FADC fireballs are at baiting out ultras designed to go through fieballs (Abel, Bison, Chun) but to give them something they feel they must block right in front of them has gotten me out of a jam.

Take the gief matchup for example, if he pushes you back into a corner, yet you score a knockdown, I’d look to do that meaty fireball. Just to keep him from pressing Lariat and giving me a chance to escape and create some distance, as well as damage if I’m feeling brave. I’ve found ways to incorporate it into my vortex and have success with it, but if I need that meter otherwise, I don’t use it.

Deejay’s vortex is still 33% which isn’t bad when you factor in a lack of an overhead, doing things at a change of pace can wake up someone off auto-pilot, but my suggestion on the matter remains minimal because I didn’t realize the times it wasn’t being blocked entirely, were just an error on the part of the other players judgment.

316

Yeah, it has like a shock factor or something for a little added pressure, but really it’s nothing tangible offense wise, which is what the vortex is. It can be used defensively to reset the spacing though.

317

Honestly if deejay isn’t buffed in AE i’m jumping ship for the Honda (atleast for tournament)

318

^lol no don’t sell out

IM really liking the changes so far. Easier punishes for Rog’s headbutts, possibly harder punishes for blocked cannon spike + no more ridiculuous TKCS pressure w/o meter, trapping Ryu in the corner + cr. MK nerf. It gives DJ more of a chance with those matchups.

I can’t wait to see what they do for DJ, and I’m getting his new costume today. I’ll be looking fresh on live babeh!!!

319

i do like those nerfs but honestly if deejay doesn’t get some buffs to correspond with those nerfs then this all means nothing to me.

i want some great buffs. I think Capcom japan can see that no one is using deejay. That should be enough reason to buff him.

its funny how people on the front page are posting on how capcom should leave those characters alone (Rog, Ryu, Cam) but if you think about it they are ridiculous. They want every character to be as buff as their own character. I would like for every character to be exception. There are barely any 7-3s but that doesn’t mean the game is balanced. They just need to buff the low tier and take a few things away from the high tier which they’ve done. I’m hoping for some good bison nerfs. If they nerf deejay’s bad matchups which are the high tiers i will be unstoppable at local tourneys.

320

I posted a pretty salty post-tourney message yesterday along the same lines as you, Jcool. But I’m going to keep it basic for alittle while, learn some fundamentals.

Deejay and Makoto get new costumes today, so I’ll probably play around with those two and do some endless to stop being such a scrub.

I do think that Deejay isn’t the type of character that really requires a drop if he doesn’t improve. I mean, he isn’t Dudley, Guy, Juri, and the like, you don’t get the feeling you’re only playing half a character when its all said and done. Dudley, Guy and Juri are all only good in one small threshold but you remove that by just one minor amount and you’re just looking at a loss.

But AE is going to be a serious “Test the waters” kind of situation for us all, I think it will be good, but if we continue to get the shaft by Capcom, its understandable.