Backdash doesn’t work on Ken’s hp shoryu either I think
Edit: It’s good advice though. I do this all the time and it makes people look hella dumb when they think “derp, I’m just going to use two bars and get out of the mixup for free!”
Don’t click the link. You don’t have to watch Keit’s podcast if it’s giving you trouble.
Alternatively you have:
Block.
Go for a cross up on their wake up.
Throw out a move that recovers quickly and then block as they try to punish it.
Jump in on top of them with an attack and block as you land before they can get an uppercut out.
Uppercut slightly after they uppercut to beat theirs out.
If you’re talking about a safe jump, you can’t safe jump shoto DPs. All you can do is fake with a jump-in that could never possibly hit them and then land and block. Or you can do a jump that they would be able to DP if you don’t attack during it. But yeah these are both just baits.
Yeah I know I was just illustrating types of baits.
It doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t. Your worst nightmare is wakeup SRKers who will not stop wakeup SRKing no matter what you do. The only answer is to do so much random garbage on wakeup that they think you’re as stupid as they are, thus baiting ANOTHER wakeup SRK instead of a wakeup walkup lagthrow or wakeup jabmash. If you’re especially lucky, you get wakeup ultra to have your way with.
DC, vote them down, and insult their mother for having an illegitimate assbaby. There’s nothing else you can do. There’s no thought process. There’s no… just don’t. Write it off, move on.
It’s really just not a good idea to jump in on ken unless you are chun with her down mk stuck out. Even then it’s dangerous. What char do you use? And this is sf4?
If i’m playing a ken online that i don’t know, if they haven’t done anything to let me know that they know what they are doing at the beginning of the match i’ll very obviously bait an SRK on the first or second knockdown. Nothing subtle at all a very obvious bait attempt that a good player would never fall for and then i see what they do.
Mind games don’t work on people who don’t think so you have to get inside of your opponents head, if they are just mashing then block and punish, but if they aren’t and you still get DPed alot it probably means you are telegraphing your attacks.
I play Rufus so the first thing I usually think when playing a shoto is I need to scare him out of using wakeup shoryuken. Once I’ve done that, I’ve won the match as far as I’m concerned. Anyway the ways in which I go about doing it are to bait shoryukens. Standing and backdashing, doing a lot of moves right before they wake up and blocking, etc.
Another thing is, sometimes it’s better to go for a combo that will push a character towards the corner than just for damage. Once cornered I find it’s a lot easier to scare shotos out of shoryukens because every mistaken guess re-corners them.
You usually only need to get it right a couple of times in a row for a player to really start questioning it.
The player I was fighting wasn’t a scrub and he knew what he was doing I just had no idea what you’re suppose to do with a wake-up shoryuken because it seemed like none of my jump ins would work. Turns out you’re not suppose to jump in!
pieton was the only one to give me some options on what to punish with, any one else have any other good ideas? As the time I was throwing as a punish because, I had just come off of playing SF2 for a while.
Another question about these is what about after a throw when the guy is facing the other direction? How long does it take for the character to turn around? If he SRKs he’s going to go the other direction right? Are jump ins safe in this scenario (they dont stay down long enough after a throw but, it’ll be good to know.)?
Cr.hp xx hp shoryu FADC ultra or even just hp shoryu FADC ultra. You’re Ryu. If you have ultra and your opponent leaves themself open you should always take it. It’s 400+ damage and it’s damn easy.
I have no idea what you mean here. After a throw or anything the opponent will always rise in your direction. The opponent is never ‘turned around.’ The only time your opponent isn’t facing you is when you cross him up.
So the answer is no, except for a well-timed crossup, he can always DP you.
Pretty much
I meant when you throw them their head is facing you instead of their feet, i didn’t know if this changed the options.
Also an FADC Ultra is easier said than done. We’re in the newbie forum here. I’ve only hit it twice in training mode and of course never in a match.
You wanted the best option to counter random shoryukens. Ultra combos are the only thing in this game that stop it from being 100% random. Unless you want to be fray to random DP you need to learn Ryu’s ultra combos.
You say you’ve only done it twice in training? What the hell man? Get your ass back in there and don’t stop until you get it at least ten times, from both left and right sides. Do that for twenty days. Otherwise you’re playing some worse version of SF4 where random DP is godlike.
That’s like saying a skateboard newbie should practice a hardflip until he gets it. There is a certain level of basic skill that needs to be developed before you venture into more advanced techniques. That’s not to say it’s not worth trying or practicing but, you’re wasting practice time when you spend it on difficult techniques when you haven’t even mastered the basics.
No matter how good you are, you’re in a newbie forum and until newbies are comfortable with the simpler elements of gameplay and can step up their training then random DPs ARE godlike. It just takes time. Acting like us newbies are hopeless because we’re not practicing FADC Ultras despite not knowing how to even beat a masher is really counter-productive.
Analogy:
“I can’t anti-air with Ryu well enough to discourage the opponent from jumping. I have trouble doing a dragon punch on command so don’t suggest that. I especially can’t get a fireball game going just because my opponent can always just jump over them and make me block.”
^
The above is dumb. The best advice for that person is to learn how to dragon punch. Dragon punch solves this problem. The person above is limiting their game so much that he’ll develop bad habits because he’s using a subpar strategy. There are only two true, honest responses to the above: either you dragon punch them or you let them jump at you. If you can’t dragon punch then they will jump at you and there is nothing you can do about it.
Learning how to DP FADC ultra is maybe about twice as hard as learning how to DP (without mashing). But it is the best and most direct solution to mashing. Discouraging people from random SRK is all about how strong your punish is. If you just punish with a throw and you guess 50/50 between meaty and block and the opponent DPs half the time, he comes out ahead just by mashing DP even though you are the one who’s supposed to have the advantage.
Execution is what separates bad players from decent players. Execution is essential to playing SF, and especially Ryu. You have two choices: learn how to DP FADC ultra and punish that Ken for terrible terrible damage, or deal with the fact that he can just mash random SRK and win.
There are other easier combos that will make you come out ahead without DP FADC ultra, like raw ultra, cr.hp xx hp shoryu or cr.mp -> cr.hp xx tatsu. But none of them are as effective or as consistent as DP FADC ultra. DP FADC ultra is actually easier than any of those once you get it down. It’s like riding a bike.
I’m sorry if you think I’m being ignorant but the truth is that mindgames, the real interesting part of SF, don’t develop until both opponents reach a certain level of execution. Only when you know all/most of your options and can execute them does the game steer clear of randomness.
I’m arguing that as a newbie your practice time is better spent on DPs than DP to Ultra. If you can’t pull off DPs you don’t fix it by trying to do FADC Ultras.
In fact I think we’re talking about different things at this point. It’s true that mindgames and excecution is more essential to higher level play than just general strategy. Being in a newbie forum I’m asking for general strategy anwers to the wakeup SRK problem. Especially considering mindgames don’t work on newbies. I’ve SRK’d jump ins for 6 straight rounds with the same player that never learned(this was the one time I was actually trying to do FADC Ultra during a battle, it was like a computer programed to jump it, it was ridiculous.)
Either way, you’ve answered the questions.
The best way to help a new player is to give them tiered responses that range from the most powerful to the easiest to do. You have done this, thank you.
Like others have said block and punish. Those are free wins. Always try to punish with a damaging bnb combo not just a throw or simple special move. Hit training mode and practice bnb’s till theyre second nature. For that matter do trials till you can just zip right through them. Good luck.
Incendently, I had a friend who could only do nollie 360 flips… not kickflips, shoveits, regular 360 flips… the only trick he could do consistently was the nollie 360 flip. You know why? Thats the only move he ever practiced. It was so crazy
A lot of people have mentioned that its not a good idea to meaty a shoto with two bars and an ultra (which also implies that wakeup throw is a bad idea).
I was wondering if dudes could gimme some ideas on how best to press the advantage in this situation? Specifically, I’m looking for options that are applicable to characters without a projectile. Obviously baiting a whiffed uppercut is the ideal… but are there any other ways of pressuring?
Cross up is the easiest way to pressure on wakeup. You can time it to beat reversal DPs too.
Like I said before, you can also do walk back cr.mk or whatever so that if they reversal DP you block but if they just block you get a cr.mk.