Props to them for keeping Krillin in these games. Weak human Z-fighters, represent!
Tenkaichi is actually the 4th Budokai
and also, even though B3 did suffer from the easy combos, i liked all they added, the dodging, the followup attacks, the teleports… all the mini-games got to my friend, but i didn’t think they were that big of a problem, if anything, they added a little change of pace
but i did have a problem with how some of the better moves were only possible after winning the triple rock/sissors/paper dragon rush combo… but oh well, had to have a downside
(goes to find friend to get my B3 back)
Tenkaichi is not the 4th Budokai.
Dimps = Budokai 1-2-3 (makers of Rumblefish)
Spike = Sparking! (makers of Firepro Wrestling, King of Colosseum)
Bandai = Owner of game rights
Bandai = Publisher of both series in Japan
Atari = Publisher of both series in America
Atari = Decided to change the Japanese name (Sparking!) to Budokai Tenkaichi
They are not the same series (Budokai) of games. They are not made by the same developer.
B3? Easy combos? Have you done Goku’s dragon fist infinite? Omega Shenron’s ultimate combo? Yamcha’s Wolf Fang Fist infinite? Gohan’s Soaring Dragon Strike Infinite? Using Yamcha’s canceled <-P to interrupt a combo and go straight into a combo of your own? Some of the better combos in B3 are not easy without loads of practice. And Tenkaichi is not the fourth Budokai, where the hell did you get that?
A guide on Budokai 3’s depth is here:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/dragon_ball_z_budokai_3_combo_mech.txt
I got Sparking, and its pretty fun. The depth has nothing on B3, and its certainly much easier to pick up, but the game has its fair share of mind games. Then again, I’m not that good at the game so I shouldn’t judge, but thats what I can see right now.
This constant talk about B3 depth is getting pretty old. Having a high level of technical requirement to do combos doesn’t signify any type of depth. It simply means the combos are hard and require skill.
All of the hard combos in B3 are meaningless. Who cares if you can pull off ridiculous combos when your opponent can TC out of them. Rarely are the long combos even used because of the TCs. You either do a short combo while the opponent has no meter, or you cut your combo short trying to bait the counter. With the capsule system, counters become even more frequent. It’s really not that hard to keep up enough meter to TC once or twice, especially with capsules.
At any rate, I’m not here to bash B3. I actually have the game in my PS2 right now (practicing combos and cancels and such). I am, however, here to respond to your comment about how Sparking depth has nothing on B3. The “depth” of B3 is a misconception perpetuated by people that are completely blinded by “cancels” and “nullifiers” and fail to see the fact that the game degenerates into a montage of silliness.
I played 150+ matches in a row with Buktooth before I even thought of commenting on B3’s system. Maybe you should do the same with good fighting-game players before commenting on Sparking’s depth.
Sparking is not a standard fighting game. In fact, it’s not even a “fighting” game. It’s actually more of a action/battle simulator with a good deal of strategic elements. Instead of the game involving varying degrees of P and K chains (with their accompanying cancels), and worrying about if your opponent can/is going to TC out of your combo, you have to worry about a whole new set of strategic elements. Things like: vertical positioning and environmental objects (mountains, buildings, cliffs, water etc).
What about attacks? In close, you still have strings that can be chained into different options such as: moves that have nullifying properties, guard breaks, throw, sidestep and backstep cancels, teleport cancels, directional smashes which must be blocked differently depending on which direction the opponent is striking (up/down/left/right/neutral).
Then you have the range/meter-based game. Ki Projectiles, Ki Charge Projectiles, Blasts, Bursts (use a stock), power-ups, homing dashes, dragon dashes etc etc.
So yeah, they are definitely different games, but don’t downplay the depth of a game you admittedly aren’t even good at (and probably haven’t played anyone good at either).
The sooner people get that into their heads, the sooner they will stop making these ridiculous comparisons.
BTW, just for the record, I don’t even like the DB universe, but I’ll try any game and give it a fair chance (re: SvC anyone?). The fact that I’m even sticking up for Sparking is a testament to the quality and potential it posseses (IMO of course). I started playing B3 just to see this “depth” that I read about on GF and here… and you know what? Only one game has disappointed me… and it wasn’t Sparking.
Oh yeah, and since I said I’ve been playing B3 lately (in addition to Sparking), here are some combos for the ladies:
http://open.tekken.net/piccolo-01.mpg
http://open.tekken.net/dabura-01.mpg
Do the imported characters become upgraded for “Sparking” battle or do they keep their B3 play style(controls)?
I think it’s pretty obvious that they conform to the standards of Sparking. Sparking has a totally different gameplay style and I couldn’t possibly see how the B3 controls would fit in the game.
No it is not obvious. :pleased:
I guess…but he IS pointless. Goku can do his Kienzan way easier (see the Buu saga, where Guku came back to earth with the Potara earings and cut Buu in half while Mr. Satan was shooting at him), and Kuririn stole the Taioken from Tenshinhan.
Cancel Combos are not the sum of B3’s depth. I think you are confused because of the fact that combos are the most talked about aspect of B3. Usually this is the result of players who are new to the game. Combos in B3 are an intermediate level of play. As far as TC’ing and capsules go… it’s not likely to find good players using Concentration (cuts Ki cost of TC’s in half) unless it was to counter Turtle Shell (opposite of Concentration). Also, believe it or not, combo improvising is part of the games depth. You want to end your combo with a deathmove before your opponent is able to TC. Along with that comes Ki management, use tactics to drain your opponents Ki in order to be able to perform longer combos.
The lesser known aspects of B3’s depth lies in things such as character reach and speed. Some combo starters in this game make and break match-ups. Piccolo has his >P… it’s fast, has excellent recovery and has good reach (35 pts). Piccolo’s starter leads to string that allows him to “zone”. Zoning is used to keep your opponent on defense and forces them to take chances which results in costly mistakes. This is one of the reasons Piccolo is Top Tier along with Dabura, who can also zone with his <P… which is also fast, has incredible recovery and very good reach (40 pts).
Some characters can also play defensively with starters that nullify attacks. Android #18 is deadly with defensive play because of her <P which is mostly used to interrupt strings. But she couldn’t do that without B3’s dodging. Dodging drains Ki while blocking gains Ki. Side-stepping is another option but can be dealt with, with throws. Not to mention some attacks track side-steppers. Attacks that can be canceled, nullify and stun add mind-games to the mix. For example Bardock’s PP<P. You could side-step but he might cancel then throw. You could back-dash but he could cancel and fire a Ki blast. You could throw a Ki blast but he could cancel then deflect. You could perform your own nullifying attack but he could back-dash buffer or cancel and fire a Ki blast or enter burst zone.
Capsules also add depth. Kid Buu + Turtle Shell is a dangerous combination. Then there’s Meditation which cuts Ki consumption down so much it affects the tiers. Transformation increase Baseline Ki, reach, add starters, deathmoves, effect combo resistance and add guard breaks. But Yakon can be used to stop transformation dependent characters. Speaking of guard breaks… some strings contain guard breaks but the most notable are Teen Gohan’s >PP<P which actually stuns your opponent which results in Teen Gohan being deadly in close combat. Omega Shenron can cancel into guard break which makes him a real threat.
Dash buffering was discovered and has affected the range game. Character’s with ranged starters now have slightly more advantage. But this tactic can’t be abused because of Ki blast. I don’t think I’m forgetting anything but I probably am. Perhaps I could have explained a few aspects/tactics in greater detail. Anyway, I just wanted to show that combos do not give B3 it’s depth.
Oh yea… the very first time I saw footage of BT (when I thought it was going to be B4) I was very disappointed. Even after months of information and gameplay footage, I still wasn’t sure if I was going to like it (even though I’ll buy it regardless). But I have to say that, with all the information that you have given us regarding strategies and tactics, I’m looking forward to playing it more.
esco,
I appreciate your response. It was well thought out and well written. However, you have to remember that Buktooth and I aren’t typical fighting game players. We are the hardcore type that sits and analizes stuff to the point of ridiculousness. I guess I’m saying, we know what “zoning” is.
During our matches, we got to a certain point in the gameplay style to where the game never seemed to advance past. We were doing all the strings with different cancel points (for throw, or setting up more strings, or sidesteps etc). We were using nullifiers and nullifier cancels. It just seemed to plateau quickly in comparison to the more “big name” fighting games.
I actually like the game, but I still have yet to see this hardcore depth that generally only DB fans talk about. I’m definitely not out to bash it just to bash it… as I’d really like to see some match videos deemed high-level by the community. I want to compare that versus what Buktooth and I found during our time playing.
In regards to the Capsule system: I really like it. It may or may not be the most balanced thing out there, but I do thing it is a refreshing idea and it (or something similar) should be in other games.
As for BT, I think it rocks. Thinking of it as a traditional fighting game is the first mistake made by most people. The strategies are almost completely different from a standard fighting game, and until you play against someone with the mentality for that type of game, you (not you directly, I mean players in general) won’t see the strategy or the depth. That being said, I don’t think it’s the deepest game out there, but I do appreciate the style of play. Also, people worry too much about the basic being the same for each character. Both players in Chess have exactly the same moves (though one moves first). Don’t always judge a book by it’s cover. You need to read it a few times. I felt Buktooth and I have done that for B3.
yea, you peeps need to stop thinking that Tenkaichi should be a really in depth high level competition fighting games cause that takes out the fun away. I for one want the Tenkaichi series to play like Power Stone or fight like the real DBZ universal. DBZ Budakai series is nothing but a huge poking game. You poke poke poke poke, then your opponent poke poke poke poke until someone dies. Its not even that fun after playing the game for awhile and i get bore of it quick when you just PPP->K. yea, there are high skill combos in the game, but whats the point of it when your opponent can just TC right out of it. the only reason why i like Budakai 2 is because of that Cell force field glitch. I may even buy the game just for that glitch. Hopefully Tenkaichi can give me that DBZ feeling considering Spike got the original music down which is badass alright and the freedom of movement too.
So trag, have you encounter any camera problems with the 2nd person view yet??
Excellent. Looking forward to Budokai Tenkaichi. 
Definetely getting it when it comes out.
i want to get both bcuz my ps2 game line-up sucks. but ill put a good amount money up that BT will be way funner gameplay wise than B3. i need to order a saturn and get dbz legends again. best rock/paper/scissors game ever. wacked out fighting system. just utter retarded fun mega style!!
You take TCing as if it was something there for free, something you can always use.
And no, you don’t poke poke poke until someone dies. You poke to build ki, and utilize charges to create mindgames so you can get by a guard. Quit bashing B3 unless you know what you’re talking about.
Has anyone found BT’s tournament mode (except Cell games) annoying? Its way too easy to ring out. I start my attack, and I usually get my opponent with a stun. If that doesnt work, I manage to land a charge attack which breaks their guard, then I connect right into a blast 2 move which usually hits and lands in a ring out…
Of course, if my opponent sidesteps my charge, I simply cancel it, and we’re at a stand still again. Since I always press the attack, my charge meter can get higher and it easily breaks my opponents guard, so I end up knocking them away and BOOM, finish with any kind of blast 2 move.
I’ll try to upload a vid of me playing sometime.
I’m not saying that the game doesnt have high-level competition-worthy depth in it, I’m saying it’s simply not a traditional fighting game. I can’t really say how far the strategies will go until more and more people play it. However, I do feel that the initial techniques and strategy are very apparent to anyone that gives it more than 10 minutes of play.
As for camera problems, the only real problem I’ve had is in Versus mode when backed into a corner. It’s not that big of a problem since you can just look at the opponent’s screen to see the reverse view.
I don’t want to see videos of people playing the computer. I want to see match videos from people that are regarded as very good B3 players. I want to see what the community regards as “high-level” B3 play.
Are you definately positively sure that Bardock is in it? I hope so, he’s my main man. I’ll own anyone with him. SPIRIT OF SAYIANS!!!
BTW: Europe: 21st October 2005
North America: 18th October 2005
Japan: I forget…
Everyone in the list of characters I posted is confirmed by me to be in the game.
Thanx. Have they made pics of him in Action yet? (Or videos) 
[quote=Spralwers]
You take TCing as if it was something there for free, something you can always use.
And no, you don’t poke poke poke until someone dies. You poke to build ki, and utilize charges to create mindgames so you can get by a guard. Quit bashing B3 unless you know what you’re talking about.
[quote]
I know what im talking about. The only techniques i use in B3 is TC, sidesteps, ki blast, TC, Ki beam, PPP->K, TC, throws, using that cheap Frieza spaceship, going straight to Super Sayien 4 if im playing vegeta with those cheap capsules and oh yea, more TC’s. I wouldnt practice the game at high level competition at all or even bother too. When the game first came out for the PS2, i play the game for hours on end with some friends and the only tactics we resorted to was TC like crazy, me go poke poke poke and my friend go poke poke poke and we keep doing it until someone dies. Mind games only helps when your canceling a move or throwing. only thing that change the battle system a bit was the TC, cause other than that, we were all playing just like each other. The only fun part about B3 was the beam struggle, mini-games, and the characters. Like i say, i prefer if the game was a true DBZ fight instead of high level competition fighting games. I want a fatal-4-way battle, fly around the stages kicking each others asses, and throwing powers every where and so far Tenkaichi probably will provide that craziness even though its only 2 players at the moment. if DBZ3 really did have an in-depth high level gameplay, then next year, it should show up at Evolution 2006 or any of japans tournament.