hey just a heads up, indianapolis tourney Aug29 2009
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=196544
hope to see/meet you there!
I try not to pay attention to tiers. I believe you just gotta know how to use you character against everybody. I know some matches are harder that others but you can still win. You just gotta go into the Hyperbolic Time Killer Instinct MF Danger DOOM Room of Doom Room and train!
What is GGPO? I’m hearing about 2df but never actually checked it out. I’m so late when it comes to playing some of these games online…well at least for the older games. Someone please school me on this so I can grace people with my presence…and get some practice in with some of you on there.
a PC arcade sim of sorts.
its cool, ross, I cant go anyway, I has a interview…
if anyone is willing to help me in HDR with my Cammy/Rog, I’d be much obliged.
I think japan>america is similar to coasts>midwest. with youtube, the death of arcades, and online play springing up there is no reason for us not to level up. Other places will always have more dense scenes which will keep cali/japan on top, just not by a landslide like it is now.
Then explain to me our success in Marvel and Smash Bros. Melee please.
The two most execution heavy games that were/still are played heavily. You can’t play either of those games without having extremely high level execution…and if execution is why Japanese players are better then us, then they should destroy us in those games…but it’s quite actually the opposite.
Only excuse we’ve ever had is lack of arcades and our population density being directly related to our lack of matchup experience on every level. Online play can potentially fix that, so…why even bother thinking that way now? It’s not realistic, it’s defeatist.
If I think Yousuke Sakonaka from Tokyo is better then me just because he’s Japanese I’ve already lost.
I didn’t say Japan was better than the US. I said they were different.
-_-
Then clearly we’re saying the same thing…
Ugh whatever. Glad that much was established at least…:rolleyes:
lol. Don’t get all worked up. Japan IS better in certain respects. For example, they play one character until they have that character perfected; every little nuance mastered, every little subtlety brought to light. That is why you see Shiro winning vs Daigo in a 2-8 matchup.
Japan doesn’t even play Marvel though, and since Melee’s not in arcades, it’s probably hard to get that together, since people got small homes and stuff, can’t host large gatherings. Not saying there isn’t a scene for these games over there, just saying these are probably the two scenes in Japan that are similar or inferior to their American counterparts.
So yeah, if Japan stops playing a given game, and we keep playing it for 10 more years, we’ll be able to beat them in that game. Easy.
Also, online play is helping, but if you think it’s the same as having good arcades, you’re just mistaken. Look at the the amount of Ryus and Kens you play online vs at a Japanese arcade.
Maybe part of this is that in an arcade, you can see that somebody in your geographic area is already maining Ken, so you’ll want to learn someone else. Online the only thing you really take into account is who you want to play, and if most everyone else likes that character, too bad. Maybe it wouldn’t be as bad if character select wasn’t blind. Not sure. Did I explain this part well?
Now granted I don’t think Japan is unbeatable, and I do think we can improve by watching them play. I just think they still have a lot of advantages over us, even with online play.
BB tomorrow, what’s the plan? I want to get it in the morning, and play as much as possible. Everyone at AL agreed we should meet at Wright State in the afternoon.
Lee what time do you go to work on Tuesday? If you want to play in the morning Ross and I will be in the area. If some people want to come back to my place and play for a bit we can as well.
Melee, I agree there, but Marvel I’m kinda “eh” about with that argument. I mean, Japan still plays 3rd strike, and those games came out at around the same time. So why play 3rd, but not Marvel?
Everything else I can agree with. I’d love to have an arcade, but online play is the next best thing we have to getting matchup experience. Though with the overabundance in shoto’s, I think once more people start learning more about the game, they’ll branch off into different characters. When I first started playing fighters, I always started with a shoto, then eventualy played different chars I thought were cool based on movelist, or seeing different mess the computer could do with them.
We just have to remember that there are a lot of new people playing SF4, or people who haven’t played in awhile…and Shoto’s are just easier to be good with until you hit your first wall. A friend of mine who’s gotten kinda back into fighters with 4 always played Akuma, but he’s only now thinking about learning Blanka (which is like a half-step better online then playing a Shoto…but it’s better then none at all…)
I guess we just need time for things to spread out more on that front.
Yeah, I agree with that too, but a lot of that might just be competitive format as well. They don’t run sets typically over there for their tournaments, and I’m not even sure if they do double elim in tournaments. That forces you to pick your best character no matter what, as opposed to having a backup just in case…which in turn requires you to completely master your character and every matchup relating to said character. I think if our tournament formats were switched we’d see the same type of thing over here. Instead of gutting it out and learning every nuance of that 2-8 matchup that’s not in your favor they’d probably just counter-pick to a better matchup, and vice-versa for our side. No one would even bother with a secondary…people would just play their best character.
But of course, that’s where population density comes into play again…And I can’t remember if it was you or Matt or someone else I saw this comment about and borrowed from…but this clearly isn’t my thought/theory…
Abel isn’t a 2-8 vs. Ryu, It’s 6-4 at the worst. You just have to think about why a match up is the way it is. Example: Options. Does the character eliminate or have a really good answer to an aspect of the other character’s game? Abel can roll Ryu’s FB’s, not totally stopping that option, but making it fairly unsafe. But you can’t fuck up any strings or have your CoD blocked because he will shoryu that shit down.
Whenever I went to Urban Square in Nagoya, there were around 2 3rd machines and one MvC2 machine, the MvC2 machine was always open because no one was ever playing it. the 3rd machines would be openly occasionally for me to pop my 100 yen in and get destroyed by some random dudes Chun-Li.
And I wouldn’t just go out and say they’re outright better than America, but the population density and the continued existence of game centers help them hone their craft better. A lumberjack in the forest is likely gonna be better at first than a lumberjack in the city because he has trees all around him. We can only get better by linking our small pocket of players together.
And Shiro’s Abel… it was a thing to watch, and his domination of Tobo’s Abel was nice to watch because mirror’s are one thing that I never think to practice but come upon me online all the time… well not all the time but they do creep up on me.
I was just quoting whatever number he said. I don’t know shit about SF4 lol. It wasn’t really relevant to my point.
Yeah, I just pulled a number out of my ass based on the weeping and gnashing of teeth Ross always seems to have about Shoto’s and Ryu in particular.
I agree on WSU tomorrow. If you guys want to bring it up, I will be at work until around 5ish. You guys can come earlier if you need to.
Hey ken, can I borrow your lawnmower? SURE YOU CAN!
Japan does have the jump on us considering they get these games WAY before we do. But we gotta train and get in that ass. Wolf Pack style! (damn I got problems lol)
Alright, whoever can meet me at the gamestop tomorrow can come back to my place and play for awhile.
You know, it’s funny that you agree about the community that I’m speculating on, but disagree about the one that I know for a fact. I mean, CoCoIchi has already backed me up on this, but I did live in Japan for a while and went to my share of arcades. Like ALL THE TIME. I think I may have seen one Marvel machine and it was in a really small town, and nobody was EVER playing it. The arcade I frequented most had Marvel vs Street Fighter I think (and nobody played that either.)
Now, you do have a point, in that I am also not sure why they still play 3rd Strike, but don’t play Marvel. All I know is that it’s a fact. I can, however, speculate that it’s because they don’t like playing a game where they’re so limited in what teams are actually playable. Other than that, I really have no idea why they don’t play it. I simply know that they don’t. I’m sure there are a few arcades in big cities where people will get together and have tournaments every once in a while.
When I was there, Tekken and Guilty Gear were huge. Melty Blood arcade was new and people were playing it. A few people played 3rd Strike. There was some special edition of KoF 2k2 that they were playing. VF 4 had kind of run its course, so nobody was playing that. CvS2 seemed kind of dead as well, but people played it sometimes. That’s what the FG community in Japan was like in spring/summer 2005. I have no idea what Smash was doing since it’s not on arcades and I would probably have to be invited to somebody’s house or a manga kisa to see what was going on there.
Anyway, it’s not often I find myself disagreeing with you, Jason. It’s just that I failed to mention that my comment on Marvel was based on observation/fact and not blind assumption.