Dasrik and StiltMan teach Blackheart

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
161

Okay. I’m taking the liberty of reordering your post a little in my quotation because this is really the big point that needs to be emphasized.

Ask yourself: does anyone with a brain ever ask this question of Storm/Sentinel? “I would just like to know the big damage combos/moves that Sentinel can provide (besides the good DHC), that would set him above Doom.” Apply that to Storm/Sentinel and the answer becomes obvious in and of itself: the DHC, by itself, makes the whole exercise rather pointless. There is nothing that Doom provides that equals that DHC in practical terms.

I mean, go down the list you gave here… (Which is why I put this stuff after now.)

Which Sentinel can also do for him.

Which only works effectively at very close range.

So you want to take away a combo that, for all practical purposes, will kill whatever it hits, for an unreliable combo that might do 40% damage? Yeah, that makes sense.

Which is really only a trickshot that doesn’t really change a whole lot in terms of matchups.

I mean, stop and look at what you’re really asking? How much chip and infinite damage with Doom do you need before you’re replacing the fact that your first hit will kill someone??? Nobody ever asks this about Storm/Sentinel any more. The idea of taking Sentinel away from Storm in favor of Doom is strategically preposterous on its face. BH/Sentinel/AAA should be considered in basically the exact same light: the sheer amount of damage you’re taking away from yourself in exchange for most anything else just isn’t worth it in just about all practical situations unless you’re simply so efficient at chipping with BH/Doom that it becomes a surrogate for Strider/Doom (which is about the only mindset under which BH/Doom really works). Even at that, I’m not sure I’d consider it a good trade-off.

162

All I know is that Doom/Blackheart/Commando is a team that I can still get to work on occasion, given that Doom survives with 75% of his health by the first DHC. Contrary to popular belief, Doom can fight Magneto (in fact, if you use his jumping roundhouse judiciously it’s actually not very difficult). More later, I feel like shit.

163

Oh, it’s not just awful. Don’t get me wrong there. I’ve tinkered with BH/Doom/Commando and BH/Doom/Guile on numerous occasions, and I’ve even used one or the other of them in a tournament in the last six to eight months. (I forget which of them it was.) It was just once, as a sort of wild idea team to try to throw someone for a loop, but I’ve used it. And there are people who that team will just ruin.

But I’m not prepared to call it terribly sound against opponents above a certain level.

164

if hes a top player around there he must suck pretty bad if he cannot mash out of a tempest

165

Well, regarding bh’s infinite with doom, technically it is a 100% hit combo when landed. The only psuedo-negative to it is that it has to be executed close, but since doom is going to be the one stopping the rush, I think its safe to assume that if the opponent gets hit by doom at all, it will be in close enough range for the infinite. Because the 2 main characters I use BH to counter are storm/magneto, there is a very good chance that in a flurry of rush, one of them will generally get hit by doom that can lead to bh inf to dhc, which is a 95-100% combo. What i’m trying to weigh is, under what frequency can BH/sent land that first hit big damage combo?
Since I have not experimented with sent/bh, I am unsure on how easy it is to connect. But if it is as easy as almost any first ground hit to get a substantial damage combo with bh/sent, then I would agree with sent being the better candidate, since he is better than doom as a character.

166

just wanted to say that BH/Ironman/Sent = the new, old hotness

that is all :tup:

167

It’s completely reliable. If it’s not working for you, it’s because you’re doing something wrong. With Commando, it works on everyone but Sentinel or Juggernaut; with Cammy or Guile or someone else that BH can inferno off of consistently, it works on them as well.

168

Stiltman - I understand trhat you view Sentinel as a more valuable assist/bench character to Storm or Blackheart than Doom mainly because of the DHC. So, for a character like Cable or Magneto, would you consider Doom a better choice (talking strictly about the bench, since Sent is better on point)? Why?

Thanks a lot for your input

169

Doom can work okay for Sentinel himself or for Cable, yeah. I’m actually contemplating throwing Sent/Cable/Doom into the rotation a bit. There’s a guy in Seattle (Hustleman) who gets quite a bit of mileage off of that team and Cable/Storm/Doom off of just sheer turtling and chip damage. I’m generally better than he is, but when he’s on his game, sometimes he messes up a lot of people that give my brand of lockdown-based turtling a bit of trouble. Pondering if I shouldn’t add Sent/Cable/Doom to my roster and try to fill that hole for people who take rushdown teams and then turtle in my face. That seems to be my biggest problem.

170

I would like to get your opinion on what would be the best OCV team for Cable at high levels and why. I made a thread a while ago about it and got several responses, but since you are one of the best Cable experts in the country/world I would really like to have your input.

Thanks for your comments.

171

Stiltman, How do I beat a VERY good Ironman with BH. Better yet, how do I beat the team Mags-a, IM-b, Sentinel-y with BH. [You can use any team with BH in it either on point or as an assist]

Also, what other team configurations give this team problems? [I hope I don’t have to Santhrax that shit.]

I also want to know which team wins in your opinion. Santhrax/Matrix or Watts, and how it wins.

I’ve found that once I know how a team secures whatever advantage it naturally has, I can usually ruin that team flat out.

172

Well, in simple terms, Watts simply makes Sentinel more powerful than Santhrax does. With Santhrax, Storm’s assist is almost an afterthought in most practical applications, and you’re mainly using Sent/Commando with a free bailout DHC. With Watts, OTOH, Sentinel not only has Commando, but he’s also got what amounts to a tracking version of Commando for long range. This is applicable not just for trapping near the ground, it’s also immensely powerful air-to-air and for keeping people from leaving the ground, meaning that Sentinel is going to be above them a lot if he wants to be. The advantages of being able to stay above most people with Sentinel on point need very little further explanation. In simple terms, BH lets Sentinel control any point on the screen, from anywhere he wants to be on the screen. You really can’t overstate that. Anywhere, any time, Sentinel can either hit you himself or bring in an assist to do so. You always have to watch yourself. Against just about anyone slower than Magneto, that’s huge, and even Magneto can’t avoid it altogether.

And this brings us back to your first question. Sentinel on point, BH/Commando in back… IM is useless. If you ever lose that matchup, you screwed up.

It also brings us to the Watts v. Santhrax matchup. Watts versus Santhrax is really bad for Santhrax because both Storm and Sentinel have issues with Sent/BH/Commando. Matrix is a little better off because Storm can begin to return some of the favor, but I’d still call it for Watts. You just don’t get a much better Sentinel-centric team than Watts, at the end of the day. Yeah, it means you actually have to figure out how to play BH on point, and that’s where most people get in trouble.

173

Stilt, I know I might be a little annoying, but could you please give me your opinion on the question above?

Thank you so much

174

I agree somewhat. Don’t forget about framecancells / framekills. What are 5 of the most common screw-ups?

Hmmm, I guess I’m the exception somewhat. I’m not quite satisfied with my Sentinel yet so therein lies the problem.

Actually, I think I know what I need to do. :devil:

175

Well, the screwups that I see Sentinel doing with BH/Commando behind him that will lose fights to IM generally really come down to two things: getting too passive and getting careless.

In the “too passive” category, this basically amounts to letting IM take the fight to Sentinel and playing from a reactive standpoint. Yeah, Sentinel can block most things that IM can do and doesn’t really have to worry about IM rushing him down too badly, but at the same time, this doesn’t mean that you want to let him set the pace where he’s flailing away at you, because at some point if you let him get too comfortable coming at you, he’s liable to eventually get lucky. This is almost a criminal negligence on a Sentinel player’s part if he’s got BH/Commando behind him, because with those two assists in the dugout, he has no reason whatsoever to let IM appreciably move, much less attack. Sent/BH/Commando is a team that does lend itself to defensive, conservative play, but don’t get to a point where you’re forgetting to hit buttons in there somewhere.

In the “too careless” category, this is sort of the flip side: you get so cocky on the offensive that you leave yourself open to random opportunities that you don’t need to be giving up. This can take a lot of forms. It can be getting too happy about throwing drones around and leaving yourself open to a frame kill proton cannon, possibly with the HSF in the third slot on the other guy’s team. It can be flying around too carelessly while leaving IM the freedom to move well enough that he can just infinite you right out of flight mode. It can be staying over his head too much if he’s one of those guys who wants to whore up with Psylocke – IM can’t control the horizontal plane against Watts to save his soul anyway, why would you want to go vertical, especially if he’s got Psy back there? In short, IM is a fight you should definitely win if you’re playing a Sentinel-centric Watts (and I’m talking, like, 9 to 1, at LEAST), but don’t flat out disrespect IM like he can’t hurt you, because he can. Keep the heat on him, but be smart about it.

megafighter: With regards to Cable-centric teams… I would say that either Cable/Sent/Commando or Cable/BH/Commando are the two best if you’re looking to give Cable himself a pure set of tools to work with. Cyclops isn’t bad for him either, and you could get away with subbing him in for Commando. I’ve looked at your threads on other forums here a little, though, and I would caution against trying to emphasize Cable at the expense of everyone else on the team. Even the best players do not get OCVs that often against players who are anywhere near their own level. Most of the players in Portland have never beaten me in a tournament match in their lives, but I still don’t get OCVs on that many of them that often. I might see it a game or two a tournament, if that. At the end of the day, this really is a team game, and although I can answer the question about what team choice you might want for focusing on a particular core character, I still have to advise you that I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors taking that approach.

176

I’d like to propose a question on BH/Sent/Cyke vs MSP. I have ALOT of trouble w/ Mags, and Psylocke seems to be his cover for EVERYTHING. I can only play keep away from him for so long w/ j.HP demons sj.HK before he lands a random lk or psy assist and starts his bs infinite till death. I have a hard time blocking resets, and I guess that’s my problem, but I wouldn’t think BH should have that hard of a time with Mags w/ an AAA behind him. I would just use Capcom, but I REALLY hate him as a character. So if sensei Stiltman or Dasrik could provide any insight, it would be greatly appreciated :china: .

177

Thank you so much. I am focusing a lot on it because cable is probably the safest character (does not take as many risks as the others) and so I would like to develop him to get leads as often as possible.

Maybe it is just me, but I feel that is much much easier to play any character having a lead than the opposite.

Also, I don’t think I can learn everything at once, so I am focusing on Cable in watching videos and asking questions, and just playing the others as well as I can. As soon as I get a good grasp of cable I will try to have more diversity in my play.

I will keep your advice in mind. Thanks again.

178

don’t know where they are but I’d advise throwing in some offense. learn to take the offensive when your opponent throws psylocke out. you sound TOO defensive so go for her. if you block mags and psy, try a j.jab/j.lk with cyk, if they doing obvious rushdown you can pick them off while hitting psy. and depending where you are on the screen you can do things from this point to flat out kill psy and punish mags. I’ve noticed that most MSP players don’t protect their psy very well. they just try to keep the pressure on. and if you’re responsive you can capitalize on the gaps while psy is out. it’d would be easier to show you what I’m talking about but experiment with it and maybe you’ll get the idea.

179

A little aggression is in order. Mag/Psy is generally dependent on Psylocke for offense, defense or whatnot so you can throw your weight around to bait her out, then try to occupy her. Cyclops isn’t a great countercall, but he serves the purpose of keeping Psylocke out of the picture for awhile (and keeping Mags in block stun). However, I would try to call drones more often than not. Mags players like to superjump right into drones trying to get in.

180

Okay needed some opinion here, what do you guys think is the best follow up on a cornered opponent that got hit with inferno + heart of darkness, then got pinned down by FK demons?

  • launcher to air combo > air grab?
  • normal jump up, throw a FP demon (the bats) behind them and apply pressure with pokes + assists. (coz if they get hit with the assist then its an opening for inferno > heart of darkness. and i think the demons would hit him if he tries to retaliate when youre going to apply pressure on him.

also same scenario but instead of inferno > heart of darkness… is there any perks on using armageddon instead? theoretically it does more damage but from my experience armageddon just seems too unreliable.