Sounds like Vergil won’t be as derp and reckless as I thought.
I think capcom did a much better time at balancing the game this time around. Still too early to tell, but everyone with a distinct advantage seems to have a distinct disadvantage as well.
Sorry but you can’t give Tokido credit for that team, it’s not a team that you really have to spend time on to make legit. And being good in Marvel doesn’t equate to they are right about what they are saying. You just listed issues why Vergil may not be top tier yet you back the two players who are saying he’s top 3 in game.
Again…not buying the unsafe block string stuff till I see more. He is the only character in the game that can infinite chain his s.S with H (that they must advance guard to stop) so unless that is his only safe string I’m not really buying it all. Which is an infinite block string involving a LAUNCHER. People complain about Wesker’s S launcher but now they put in a character that can repeatedly throw his H and then his launcher at you over and over? This sounds like some real wool over the eyes stuff.
If he truly is unsafe on everything outside of the infinite string with no way to stay safe otherwise…then that would basically relegate him to nothing but an anchor character. There’d be no point in putting him first or second because if your first character gets killed early and you have him second, then he has no swords super to keep him safe that he’ll most likely have to keep burning. Vergil would arguably one of the worst characters in MVC3 ever. Not just bad. Like nearly Hsien Ko bad. I don’t see that happening.
If I read the strategy guide and see stuff that says “you can do this to keep Vergil’s basic strings safe on block” and it doesn’t involve assists…I know I’m good to go for at least what I want to use him for on my team. If I read the strategy guide and it’s like “ZOMG HAVE SWORDS ON OR MASH ASSIST ALL THE TIME OR DIE!!” then I’m most likely going to drop Vergil cuz that sounds more shitty than Hsien Ko.
It’s nice that people did “testing” but I almost guarantee you that strategy guide is going to come out and say stuff that about how his strings can be made safe without assists. If it doesn’t…I can just pick up Hsien Ko cuz that’ll be about the same effectiveness. Instead of trying to give myself an armored assist I can just shove Vergil in the back, turn on DT+sword dance and pray cuz he’s garbage and that’s all I can do.
Not having safe strings without assists AND being highly meter and assist dependent JUST TO MAKE STRINGS SAFE wouldn’t make him mid tier or not great. It would make him arguably one of the worst characters MVC3 has ever had. **Which I don’t buy that. We already have Hsien Ko and Phoenix for characters you just spend meters with and come out swinging and hope you win. **
I remember before picking up Dante in Vanilla people used to say stuff like “well if you whiff Dante’s normals…you’re done”. Which is hardly ever the case unless you whiff like his s.H which there are plenty of ways to not make that happen. Let’s see this shit first.
I will drop Vergil day one without issue if we land in some crazy parallel universe where Vergil’s block strings can’t be made safe without turning on sword dance or calling assists. That would honestly be the stupidest shit that has hit MVC3 period.
I agree with most of what you said deviljin, the only personal grip I have is that so many people here play Vergil without knowing much of his background or just “dropping him” if he’s unsafe or terrible. That’s more of a personal preference, since I know a lot of people play competitively, not based on what they like. I try my best to blend the two mentalities together. Using what you like to an extent, but making compromises with playstyle and in this game (assist characters and team synergy) to make it work.
I think people on the forum should go play DMC3, haha. I wish… But anyways, I doubt he’ll be completely unsafe. All of what I’ve read on Vergil hasn’t tested Stinger extensively or his Rising Sun. Rising Sun with teleport could prove safe if it’s instant, and allows you to block. We can probably cancel at least something into IAD mixup, but that’s only DT. Regardless, I doubt everything he throws out is unsafe. Glad a lot of it is, since he’ll be harder to play, and hopefully scrubs will move away from him when they get punished enough.
Honestly if he has bad blockstrings doesn’t that turn him into a punish character instead of a pressure character? Is that bad? All it means is that you have to not just throw shit out randomly (like Zero) and actually think (Like normal Pheonix). (Is used to playing Punish >.>)
Every good character can pressure and punish equally hard. Having to rely on your opponent making a stupid mistake to do damage sounds like a shitty character design to me.
Sounds like Iron Tager… 
Did any one catch Filipino Champ saying that Vergil will be the best character in ultimate, he says he heard from “inside sources” in japan. You can see at 1:09:00 in this video:
Hes he trolling or you guys think he might be right?
By inside sources he meant Tokido… I would take it with a grain of salt. Too early to say much at this point. He looks good, but not like a new Phoenix.
as long as we can make his normals safe, Vergil is definitely one of the best in the game.
**Unless you have to be in Devil Trigger to do this string I don’t see what could go wrong off breaks. **http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR9atOavbII#t=2m15s
I thought about it for a while…and well there are technically other characters in the game who can’t really make safe block strings at close range that are scary without assists. One of them being Captain America. The thing with Captain America of course is that if you have the right assists you can make block strings that literally last seemingly forever and set up throw/c.L games off them nicely with his 4 frame start up c.L that has hella range. If he hits you with a shield slash he can combo you for full damage from most of the screen away also.
I mean as long as you have a decent assist…EVEN if the H, S string infinite was his only safe string that would be fine IMO because the H, S string has an ABSURD range and also happens to have his fucking launcher in it (that is safe to throw out basically as long as its blocked). Which would make that string some day one scrub rage stuff easy. If people thought Wesker mashing S was bad they have no idea and this is coming from the guy who “doesn’t have safe block strings without assists”. If he’s like Captain America where adding in assists just fills a small hole in his block strings so that they can last for a long time and set up really nasty mix ups…then I’m fine with that.
Considering the range on H, S is absolutely ginormous…that might be all he needs. If you can safely do like s.L/c.L, s.M/c.M, H, S, H, S, H, S then with some assists in the middle that’ll proably be all you need. Even if for some reason you could only do H, S repeatedly…that’s still better than nothing.
A DMC character that’s not a pressure character? Come on. He looks like TvC Karas without the c.L mash.
ABCS~H~S~H (call beam assist) xx crossup teleport? would that work?
Considering H S H S hurp durp works, I’m sure anythign else goes after that.
Trish 
You obviously haven’t been pressured by cancellable dive kicks or assist lockdown with high/lows. She’s capable of both lame and rush…that’s her trait basically. Whatever way you prefer to play for the situation she can make it work.
I’ve played her since Day one, she is my favorite character in the game and of the DMC series. No need to try to lecture me on how she plays. And Trish is not a “pressure character” but a character who has to the option to do so but shines better in the air. That’s like calling Wesker a keepaway character just because his gun is a very strong zoning tool.
It sounded like he was considering he just said that virg broke the game by blowing 4 meters to kill one character he sounded pretty sarcastic. I think he was trying to point out that phoenix still owns don’t believe the nerf hype.
You can’t win matches with Trish unless she comes down with a dive kick into pressure so she obviously ends up being a pressure character regardless. She can’t win on her lame alone like Hawkeye or Ghost Rider will most likely be able to. She doesn’t do enough damage via her lame out to be up in the air just shooting stuff. Her play style consists of shutting down your attacking options long enough so that she can swoop back down and take you apart.
They’re changing the way her traps work so she’s forced to switch between traps in the air to keep them going and they’re giving her the ability to combo into super off her air throws so she will definitely gravitate even more towards a pressure character. I can understand saying a character like Chris or Hawkeye isn’t pressure based but Trish ultimately has to come down if she wants to hit anybody. She can’t really hit people from full screen, she just stops people from coming in at best so she can go down and hit them later with high priority dive kick for safe pressure start up.
Even if I’m using a rushdown character with no projectile options without an assist…if I have have the health lead on Trish and runaway from her…she has to come in. There’s no way for her to take damage off of me from full screen (that doesn’t involve random super and burning out the meter she’ll need to continue the lame out any way). Which is definitely more reminiscent of a pressure character. If your options for full screen lame are all meter based…you’re definitely more pressure based. You can only throw so many round harvests that get advance guarded down before you have to go back in and build meters. This is considering this is the same character that has a super that sets up unblockables with other characters after raw tagging them in.
Wesker is like Trish but on a stronger degree of pressure. He can lame but he has to go in to win. Same with Trish except her lame with meters is a bit stronger. Still…a character that can’t really kill you or chip you out from long range without meters is ultimately more pressure based. Unless she has 3 plus meters she has to go in on her own and build her own meters which pretty much forces you to pressure.
On the other hand a character like Hawkeye won’t have to go near you to build meters because he’ll be able to put so much shit on the screen that you’ll be blocking his shit no matter how far away you are from him. Which will allow him to build meter regardless. Especially if he ends up hitting you with some of those projectiles from the far range.
Yeah at best that’s like a super fair version of the DHC glitch.
And how does that make her a “pressure character” and not a “trap character” that relies on punishing opponent attempts to get in. All characters in the game can pressure the opponent, but does that mean every character in this game is a “pressure character”?
Your example of rush down vs her as the last character just proves that she is not idea for the anchor spot, not that she is a legit “pressure” character. Yeah Ghost Rider and Hawkeye and can stay away, but to get any real damage, they are going to need to land a combo.
Also her air trap game isn’t changed enough to effect the way she plays. Just look at how RDK or Jago plays her and you rarely see them do more than one hopscotch per jump.
Edit: Also, Ground Hopscotch+Round Harvest if meter is available if she the last character left to chip them down.