no, not me. Vergil is another point character to me that I will keep in reservation for how stupid good his DT is. imo it edges out Dante’s because of the speed and damage buff. his IAD is even faster and has slightly better range. I’ll be putting Strange on point to build some meter from playing his normal game then end a combo/safe super out into DT or Spiral Swords. Vergil is amazing outside of DT, and even better with assists to extend combos and lockdown plus the buffs he gets from DT.
one, obviously we haven’t seen high level play of Strange yet. the best day 0 Strange so far is Max and that’s based off several gameplay clips of his, lol. Strange is gonna be one of those characters that feel really slow and robotic until you break them, specifically their mobility. compare a day 1 Doom and Clockw0rk’s Doom and you’ll see how vastly different the two are with the way they move around.
two, Vergil and Strange have more or less the same amount of health, around the 800-850k health range. also, saying “teleport mixups can be avoided once the person catches on” is questionable. with the Best Friends mixup in Vanilla, no matter how many times you get hit with it that you can see it coming from a mile a way, that doesn’t guarantee you’ll block it. you’re given an ever-so-slight window of opportunity to guess correctly and block, and considering Strange has the fastest teleport in the game, it’s way easier said than done.
Strange is supposed to have good zoning. like Keits mentioned in the podcast, people haven’t been utilizing Mystic Swords very much at all, all versions of the move really. L Swords is a great anti-air that is also good in combos while the projectile versions are really fast and have high durability. I predict he’s going to be a momentum based character like Viper, in that you’re done if you let him get the zoning (which transitions into his offense) down otherwise Strange will be dead since he doesn’t have many tools on the defensive spectrum other than crossup teleport, SJ fly do something, or better yet safe super DHC into select buff supers to escape corner situations.
I actually agree with you on Strange’s traps, and somewhat on Strider & Vergil teaming up & V. (I’ve been saying that Strange would end up having the Dorm factoh) buttt I’m sure Strange will still be insane, as mentioned by DJ his disks and other specials + assists + an instant teleport should make him very hard to deal with. I do agree that Max hasn’t really been getting anything of with him in the videos, his traps took to long to setup and his fireball 50/50’s just failed & looked hard to try.
Vergil, It wasn’t my goal on using his DT for assists just cause I don’t like the idea of the Super > Tag out thing. But with Strange & Dante I can see that plan working. I was more planning on just using the other assists available & just fighting it out. I have Vergil second anyways so I can still apply that plan for Strange if Dante dies and V’s weakened. And unlike Dante Vergil seems to get bigger strengths in DT assist wise so that’s good. Also with my team I have safe DHC’s all over so +1 idea.
I’m trying to stop talking about Strange here but I will say this: we have similar views on Strange in that if you let him get going it’s hell but I guess mine is more of a "why the hell would I let him get going in the first place?"thing. I don’t think Strange will be as good as Viper either and stop here.
As for Vergil no doubt he’ll be great on point already said it but my strategy is more using him as a last resort type thing until I learn him better. Maybe if Iron Fist doesn’t pan out I could easily put Vergil on point because by then I’d have learned him better and have Trish use peekaboo as an assist potential and sillyness like I did with Dante.
I hope peek-a-boo works with Vergil at least I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
I was thinking about it and Team DMC is actually the best theme team in this game imo, certainly a viable one in tournament. it covers pretty much all bases and each character’s assist complements the other team members, besides extend combos.
Vergil’s best mixups with Rapid Slash are gonna be ground based left-rights so Trish with Peekaboo assist to discourage tridashes or jumpins will help a lot in that department.
Nice video from Max, sucks he didn’t mention anything about the DT + Assist thing we were discussing about though. I really wonder what the buffs are.
Still don’t know how to feel about the hitstun. After Max hit with the Round Trip, the Rising Sun combo seemed to fail so you’re forced to go day 1! ;-; or resets. And yea Team DMC sounds very strong. Edit: Hm I might actually learn Trish just to have a team DMC in the bag lol =D
Strange has a command normal that counters everything other than lows and projectiles.
I personally don’t really have a problem discussing the other characters as long as it’s in relation to working with Vergil. I feel like Vergil’s DT powered assists could really help Strange.
I’ve updated the OP with information from Max’ useful Assist Me! video. Shoutouts to Dimension Slash. On the day of Vergil’s reveal, I put down Slash Dimension as the name of that hyper combo in the OP, changed it to Maximum Bubbles because it was presumptuous of me to guess at move names. Also, Dark Angel is a sick level 3 name and shoutout to Nelo Angelo.
Yeah my team will likely end up being Vergil/Ghost Rider/Trish because peek-a-boo helps both GR and V especially GR because now you’ll HAVE to teleport behind me and make that guessing game easier. I really hope IF pans out tho because I like him so much.
Those purple ball thing take way to long to set up I agree and no one is gonna let it happen. Strange’s traps take to long it’s the same reason I don’t think PW will be very good because it takes SO LONG to set up their really deadly stuff that 95% of the time I think your gonna be doing more basic trick to keep them off.
Of course I firmly believe Strange will be WAY better than PW but they both share that trait of slow build up to bigger things
Max didn’t seem to cover the DT buffed specials much in the tutorial. does Rapid Slash get any significant buff in speed or damage or something? Vergil may just be another do-everything character if that assist gets even better from DT. more reason for me to run Vergil on point instead of Strange like I was originally planning as it seems I’m one of the very few people who want to put him up front for his point abilities, lol.
I would love to run Vergil on point but I know I’ll suck with him at first because I haven’t played Dante in forever. If Iron Fist doesn’t work out then Vergil will be my battery for Ghost Rider instead and the anchor spot will go to either Trish,Nemesis,Doom, or Hawkeye because they all seem good.
So many characters I want to play but I think the safest bet will be She-Hulk on point with her fancy new buffs as battery use Vergil’s and GR’s assist to get her in to wreck shop, tag in either Ghost or V when I have 4 or more bars. Basically the same strategy lol but with She-Hulk.
I’m having a very rough time picking teams which is why I wanted more slots for presets :bluu:
Yea altho in the videos Max didn’t use his Swords Super and/or crowns mixups too so I don’t think he’s played him that much to think of the Assist buffs in DT mode. I’m hoping Rapid Slash & Rising Sun get a little (more) invincibility in DT since an extended hitbox like Judgment cut would probably be useless for those.
[details=Spoiler]I’m super scared of PW just cause I actually think he builds up his Super Saiyan mode wayyy to quick. He has an auto-search move where he can potentially srsly find all 3 pieces of evidence in a split second (Also Maya’s barrier = GDLK). That + the SS mode not requiring any bar + An instant 600K complete screen super + mid-screen pokes that lead into an easy 600K plus + Imo seemingly the most OP projectile spamming in that mode. + The mode lasting long + him having 1M-ish HP
And thats WITHOUT XFC lol. I must have overlooked something tho or just be overthinking things lol.[/details] <- Put text in spoiler.
I very much don’t think Vergil especially Dr.Strange players have ANYTHING to fear PW over. Vergil could just do his full screen projectile that just shows up on the other side of the screen and won’t have to travel through Maya’s shield at all. Strange also has a tracking projectile that is fast and starts in the air which will also allow it to go other Maya’s shield with not much effort.
Vergil and Strange players can also just teleport around the shield then wreck PW so I really don’t see why people are sweating him. When the game develops more PW players are gonna have to do alot more work to get close to Turnabout mode than V and Strange players will to hit him.
Also PW may not even get the right evidence at all he could get something stupid like a banana peel which is a huge weakness because they are doing all this work and still may not get what they need.
Phoenix Wright gather evidence really quick. People don’t understand just yet cause most just haven’t tried it in action. I gathered evidence within 2-3 seconds of the start of battle when I played him at comicon and even if you don’t get the right evidence, it doesn’t take long to toss it out and scrounge around again. Believe me, he’ll find at least 2/3 of the required evidence he needs within calling Maya out. As for Maya, if she’s anything like Modok’s shield (which i’m sure she is) then people like Dante/Vergil are fucked no matter if they teleport behind him or not since the shield covers both sides with swords. I can’t talk for strange (but mainly cause I don’t care about strange) but this guy really doesn’t have to do any work outside of hitting objection off and tagging out until the player feels the need to come back in for a level 3.
And this is without PW having assists covering his ass.
Yeah it’s stuff like this that ensures people will just need to sit down with the game first and figure all of this shit out.
Plus with Strange…people need to realize that he has options that most other characters don’t have for basic offense and zone that other characters normally like to do. Maybe his more powerful stuff will take setting up but he has a ton of tools for telling basic Marvel shit to fuck off.
I don’t think PW is gonna be scary at all all this stuff about collecting evidence without assist is going to only get harder because people are gonna find ways around that shield quick and assist can only do so much.
I predict alot people are gonna be banking on Maya’s shield to cover them when it’s not that big, easily jumped over, your still not safe from characters like Ghost Rider and Nemesis with thier long ass reach, plus teleports are blow his shit up quickly.
It doesn’t matter how fast you can’t get it because smart players are never gonna stay off PW and constantly be pressuring him from the start of the match so I don’t see anything to fear really.
To re-iterate Shin Oni’s point about Maya’s shield, if you’ve never played a good Modok before you have no idea how good such a shield can be. Long reach is largely irrelevant to a shield like that. If any part of the attack touches the shield, the entire hitbox of the attack is eliminated. It may be that GR has some weird compartmentalized multiple hitboxes that can make his longer attacks not useless against the shield, but it’s doubtful that any other character would have anything similar. (Although characters like Nemesis and Superskrull do have long range grabs that might get around it.)
Simply put, if you’re not careful with really long range attacks then shields like Modok’s and/or Maya’s will make them useless.
We’ll just have to wait until the game comes out but with more and more tracking assists being put in the game I don’t see PW getting away with his terrible mobility if you stay on him from the jump. Plus doesn’t Vergil’s judgement cut that just shows up on the other side of the screen completely bypassing Maya’s shield? What about V’s rapid slash move that kind of puts him on the other side of the screen?
I don;t think Maya’s shield can hold people off long enough imo but we’ll see when the game comes out I guess.
Again, if the hitbox touches it then the hitbox gets nullified. So a JC hitbox that doesn’t touch it would not be nullified. (Which might make DT a liability in this one specific instance, but nevermind about that.)
As to rapid slash, I haven’t seen it go through it myself. But I can see how it can do that seeing as it can get on the other side of point characters already. So in this case rapid slash may still be effective if PW hid behind the shield. As would hopefully be his round trip. It all depends on the specific functionality of the shield. I’m really, really hoping that round trip (for vergil and/or trish) won’t be ineffective against early Maya PW shenanigans if he hides a distance behind.
Even if he hides directly under Maya’s shield, he could still possibly get thrown. But then he may have an assist to help deal with that as well. Or he’ll just wait for you to attempt to get close and start hitting you before you get a chance to throw. It’s just not as clear cut as it might look at first glance either way.