(I Didnt read the above post yet ^, mine was talking about the comments before that one)
Although with Vergil it seems more clear he’s gonna wanna use the meters, for other chars like Dorm or I guess taking Strider too, I feel they can manage easier without/playstyles. Obviously V will have great mixups without tons of meter (And in Max’s video I haven’t seen him do a single sword super and he’s managing fine, but he probably hasn’t rly played him) but it does seem his swords/crowns are very useful and will probably be used a ton like seen on the stream.
For that Im prob. not gonna have him first, but he’s not gonna be bad anywhere, & he prob. doesn’t have more than 950k hp, so I feel Id die before getting anything big. I also wanted to make a second team with Strider as I wanna play both but prob. not together. Not cause he requires a lot of meter though which he probably doesn’t really, not much more than most it seems, but cause he seems like a char you gotta put a lot of time in as well to make work, and I like Dr.strange more for now.
To be honest, Vergil will be just as versatile as Dante as he’ll go anywhere in a team. He’ll either be the main meter whore in your team or will be the guy who just pesters the fuck out of you on point with resets and assists backing him up. The difference here is that Vergil more than likely will be a better anchor than Dante because he has at least swords super to help open up an opponent. So in a sense he has a assist as long as he has meter. (which again, if he’s anchor, he’ll generally have meter to throw out.)
Plus I assume Xfactor cancel > Swords off a blocked normal is more than enough.
My point was never to say Vergil can’t be on point himself lol, it was that Strider and Vergil on the same team would take away something from the other imo. Pretty much I was trying to say what lucky said in more detail, sure it could work together but why put two low HP characters on the same team where there isn’t enough meter for both to maximize their abilities.
Strider especially has crazy low health so one mistake and death is coming. Of course on their own they’ll both be fine batteries that wasn’t what I was trying to say. On the same team they could potentially counteract one another imo which could lead to unnecessary losses.
One thing to note between Strider and Vergil is that it appears Strider has around 700 k health while Vergil looks to be around 800 k. But, on the flipside, Phantom Swords is nowhere near as good as Ouroboros. Vergil can also get hit out of Phantom Swords during start up (it’s not instant). But Vergil in DT is pretty good - he gains a significant speed boost, almost X-factor like. And gets a very fast and lengthy air dash.
I think the first month of Vergil we’ll see a lot of Phantom Swords, but as time goes on we’ll see more Devil Trigger.
You act like the low health characters are easy to land hits on. They’re always the hardest characters to actually land hits on. That’s why they have low health (maybe outside of Arthur but that’s because Arthur can’t actually move anywhere on the screen to save his life).
I mean the way my “new guys” team (Vergil/Strange/Strider) is set up the idea is basically to run Vergil on point to feed meter for Strange who will come out the gate with meters for projectile counter super and vishantis out the gate. I think what I’ll ultimate end up doing is making the team as creative as I can make it by taking advantage of the fact that Vergil’s assists become much stronger when he is in Devil Trigger.
Dr.Strange looks like a character with enough practice that doesn’t really need to DHC into anyone to kill characters kinda like Doom or Dorm. Which is why the only attacking level 1 super he has pushes people away and does minimal damage cuz he’s most likely going to be able to control most of the screen space with good assists, his self assists and supers. If I can kill the first character with just Vergil resets then Strange can tag in and just kinda build meter for himself instead of relying on DHC’s. Plus he’ll either have super charged DT judgement cut or rapid slash assist which since he’s reliant on shit in the middle of the screen to turn his teleports into deadly 50/50 weapons it’ll be a great way to instantly make Strange better.
After that then Strange is fighting on point with really strong assist. If Strange dies then Vergil comes in ready to go in DT plus hopefully some meter built from Dr.Strange so that he can do more once the DT runs out. Vergil with teleport kick assist from Strider doesn’t sound bad at all as long as I can find a way to make it work with Vergil’s game despite the slow, vulnerable start up. The ability to track people no matter where they go is going to be really useful for keeping people locked down for sword circle super mix ups.
I could even just pull a DiosX and throw Vergil all the way in the back of the team as soon as I kill somebody with him and turn on Devil Trigger. That way both Strange and Strider get access to hurp durp Vergil DT assist and Vergil in the back I’m sure will hardly be a slouch especially if he’s coming out the gate with DT on + XF3.** Actually that’s most likely what I’m gonna do cuz DT judgement cut assist covers most of the screen and who knows how good DT rapid slash assist is gonna be.**
That team isn’t bad but Strange doesn’t seem as good or as hard to hit as people are making him out to be. His traps take to long to set up so I very much doubt your actually gonna have shit all around the screen because I wouldn’t let you. Strange is gonna get hit alot trying to set up stuff and will have to rely on his supers for defense. Strange is overrated right now and alot of people will be disappointed, not to mention he’s not that hard to hit with no airdash, slow flight, and slow traps. He also doesn’t have easy OTG’s if any outside hypers and already has base low damage so I highly doubt he’ll be like Dorm. Actually I think Dr.S will be a worse version of Dorm and no where NEAR as good as Doom who has everything.
Vergil has terrible recovery on his normals and is easily punished so your not just gonna be running through people with that team like you think you are. Strider has to be last so he can XF, if not he has so little health I can see many Strider players getting chipped to death.
Your team sounds nice in theory but I really doubt it in practice TBH because all those characters are not that easy to hit. But they are also NOT that hard to hit and take crazy damage, I can see your team having a weakness to smart zoning.
Strange with meter basically can’t be zoned so the only character that might have any real trouble with zoning is Vergil up front. Which is kinda the whole point of teams in MVC3. Sacrifice things so other things can be stronger later on in the team.
Strange doesn’t even really need traps IMO. As soon as he gets an assist out on screen you better be scared as shit because if he ports and you didn’t block the right way you’re getting comboed. That’s why he has the fastest port in the game so he’ll be able to combo off the port regardless if he called the assist as a cross up or non cross up. The fact that he has a command normal that acts as a true counter against all high and mid ranged attacks also forces dive kick and air dash characters to more so limit their attacking options against him. Plus mystic sword is an extremely fast, durable projectile that will basically act as a full screen normal.
All of Vergil’s normals can be cancelled into some other special move that makes it safe because it’s MVC3 so that won’t matter too much. Plus calling assists in the middle and nobody’s doing shit. It’s gonna be just like Dante…unless they get in point blank range not much to worry about.
You’re thinking cancels into JC, ports, and/or rising sun into port will be his bold cancel substitutes?
He does seem like he’ll be vulnerable in the air for sure though. No air specials to speak of other than his charged and slow round trip… I’m not sure if he can even cancel his down+C into S…
I dunno about Stinger xx teleport in terms of safety though. I’ve seen Vergil being punished out of teleport’s recovery from something like Stinger xx L teleport several times so no, I don’t think it will be as safe as a bold cancel. crossup teleports might work though. need to find out what moves give him frame advantage on block to be absolutely sure.
yeah basically this!
If you can get Vergil transformed and off screen your point can build meter while whoring DT’d assists…def gonna be my strategy off rip. Vip/Verg/Hawk…let viper do her thing, then bring out vergil and on first opportunity go for DT DHC to golden arrow…which should be an easy punish for anybody pressing buttons.
Verg and Hawk will be best friends and potentially one of games best duos
Viscant on the pod cast said that he talked with Jago a bit about Vergil. Saying the way people are playing Vergil now is very unsafe and easily punish due to not having bold cancelling like Dante. Yet Keits went into how he feels assists should mitigate that problem and there most likely are safe cancelling techniques for Vergil that we need to explore any ways. Especially since Vergil’s sword dance super goes away if you hit him I assume there’s more that you can do to keep him safe with or without assists.
So basically everyone has the same strategy of using Vergil mainly for his assist? Great,whatever yeah I’m not wasting time switching him out after DT to buff his assist tho. I’m just gonna let IF do all the meter building then only bring out Vergil when I have 4 or more bars or he’s the last character which with all of IF reset potential V would have alot of meter there two.
I’m not sold on this Strange is really hard to hit crap when in every video he’s been hit and loses a ton of health. He takes damage like a bitch (worse than Vergil) and teleport mix-ups can be avoided once the person catches on. There are ways around his BS like staying on him with constant pressure for one completely neutralizes his gameplay of traps and teleports because he’ll have to room to do it.
I’m gonna stop talking about Strange because this is V’s topic but a character like Wolverine or Zero gets in which isn’t that hard because Strange’s zoning isn’t that good he’s done. To cover him you’ll have to rely on assist which could lead to happy birthdays constantly. At least that’s the way I see it.
People are just not use to him yet, remember how people played Dante at first? Crazy unsafe!! I still think Vergil will be the replacement for my poor neutered Logan
