For characters without double-jumps and air dashes, or any effective projectile tools, they can be vital. Otherwise you only have 3 standard modes of approach. (Ground/jump/super-jump)
Seeing as he has a teleport, that might just be people relying on that. It’s still disappointing seeing absolutely no one trying it out. The extra height and range it gives to you in the air, combined with the ability to call assists, isn’t something trivial.
Oh god Vergil why are you so damn good? Watching that Stream last night had me going nuts D=
LPN Pretty much doing everything I was thinking after OTG. So glad to see it’s that effective.
and IMO Theli Trish/Vergil will still work. I mean at this point, Trish can go in any team now that she has a OTG Super. But you’ll still get mixups off peekabo/low voltage assist regardless.
peakaboo seems absolutely perfect for holding them in place after OTG>trick down too.
Honestly I use Dante and he really doesn’t require too much work/execution. His combos are long but not that hard. And his overall gameplan is as basic as it possibly gets.
Dacidbro was using the same airthrow, otg + activate level 1 xfc, launch into dead character. Activate swords super + call assist for a super derpy/ghetto mixup coming in into another dead character.
He has those brain dead left/rights thanks to sword super. He looked very very very easy to use.
After a lengthy combo, they tend to pop out of peakaboo pretty quick. It’s used this way purposely as surprise resets sometimes.
S tier Vergil. Lets do this.
Not really…I don’t see how it gets more basic than super jump -> divekick, or B. Slash xx B. Charge. Or cr.L with DP. Dante is a character centered around spacing and execution. You can’t just run in and mash normals, like with most of the top tier in this game.
As for the herpy derpy stuff, I urge people to just let this game develop. Patches only solve so much. The community itself can do more than enough work in our homes, at the arcades, in the forums, etc. in the coming years so the meta of this game can evolve beyond simple things like what people are seeing right now. The more time people spend playing each other, and as well as spending time in the lab, the better this game will get. I truly believe that, given a few more months, Phoenix and Wolverine would have been overtaken by Viper (Yes, I’m from the Church of Viper) and Dante as the top 2 in this game. Everyone just seems to take it on faith that Jean and Logan are as good as it gets, and that there is a certain way to play certain characters/teams.
People used to think Doom was trash during the first couple months of release, but I saw a ton of potential with him from day 1. I didn’t get the chance to discover much tech due to having a huge work/school-load, but now apparently Doom is top 10? That’s because the game developed. All it takes to completely change a game is the dedication of a small amount of the community. And all it takes to make a character that seems trash really good is one person taking that character seriously.
All this braindead stuff we see working now? Guarantee it, give this game a year, and it’ll completely change.
Tron/Haggar assist allowed you to basically run in with shit and act like an idiot with Dante but luckily they’re getting nerfed.
Dante’s ability to convert normals that are invincible from half the screen into full combos is pretty fucking stupid in of itself but yeah…Dante isn’t quite easy enough to play without Tron or Haggar where you could just use Vanilla Wolverine and get thing done easier. If all you’re looking for is to play like an idiot.
Super Jump Dash + H really isn’t that much different. Or spamming hammer. Dantes cr. L was super godlike and you could mash that for days… it was more of a rhythm mash but that shit was effective as all hell. You can easily spam Dante’s normals because stinger practically makes everything safe because of bold cancel. You don’t need advanced spacing knowledge and his execution is mediocre (mediocre in an easy ass game if you will). His combos are long but the timing isn’t tight at all. So once your muscle memory got it down you can basically go into autopilot mode once you get an easy ass hit confirm.
My main team for awhile was Viper/Dante/Iron Man. Dante was head over heels the easiest one to use on the team. Out of most of the characters I use he is one of the easiest. He isn’t on the same page as Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma or some of the other top tiers I will give you that. But he is far from hard to use.
This is what everyone said about Wolverine at the beginning of Vanilla. Nearly one year later… lol :tup:
Well if you’re playing Viper and Iron Man, then I can see how Dante would seem easy. But you really do have to be on point with your muscle memory for him, as well as dedicate some time to him. Everyone basically figured out how to play Wolverine by Day 2. Advanced Dante tech took weeks months to develop. He’s not braindead by any means, man. You can’t just pick him up in a week and expect to be beating people that are actually decent. Meanwhile, you can pick up Wolvie one day and just mash 214H, score a random hit -> B. Charge -> Mash standard BnB -> XF -> Thor’s dead.
Exactly how many people tried to find stuff to counter Wolverine? No one, they all just switched to him. Same with Wesker. Cite NorCal Regionals 2011 and Evo2k11. If not a year, then give it two years. You can’t just look at such a young game, see some easy shit, and go, “Yeah, this is what this game’s gonna be about forever.” Doesn’t work like that.
I have already said that Dante isn’t on the same level as Wolvie. But he isn’t as hard as a lot of people make him out to be. Sure you need to spend a little time in the danger room… but that is just for his long muscle memory combos. The execution isn’t that hard it is just long… no real tight timing or anything super hard. Double DP motions might be bothersome at first but they become 2nd nature relatively fast.
Look all im saying is Dante isn’t as hard as people say. He has a very simple gameplan backed by godlike/busted moves and incredible normals you can swing around and stinger->bold cancel into safety, not much thought/need to hit confirm (if you can hit confirm with Dante you probably shouldn’t be playing fighting games). His combos are just long, that in themself does make them more difficult, but there are several other characters with shorter ones that are much harder than Dantes because they require somewhat of strict timing and spacing knowledge.
Exactly how many people tried to find stuff to counter Wolverine? No one, they all just switched to him. Same with Wesker. Cite NorCal Regionals 2011 and Evo2k11. If not a year, then give it two years. You can’t just look at such a young game, see some easy shit, and go, “Yeah, this is what this game’s gonna be about forever.” Doesn’t work like that.
[/quote]
Im sure tons of people tried to find this “Anti wolvie tech” (As a viper player I had focus->EX Seismo… but not a lot of characters have broken shit like that) but it just didn’t exist. His mixups were so ghetto and ambigous that there really wasn’t much of a solution for them. Wolvie dominated from day 1 the same way he dominates now at the end of vanilla marvel. A lot of people played wolverine but not everyone… so it wasn’t like nobody could find anti wolvie tech, it just didn’t really exist.
I would say Dante, Zero and Phoenix are all S tier characters that clear counter Wolverine.
Viscant found out that Haggar assist counters Wolverine. Tokido was pretty much sure set to win Evo but Ranmasama’s Haggar assist team shut him down early (Mag/Sent/Hag).
Haggar assist in general pretty much proved to be the answer to the blind rushdown Vanilla ran on and it’s not a surprise that Haggar assist won Evo due to such. Wolverine’s c.L can help work around Haggar assist but the problem is it shuts down his mix up and then forces Wolverine into a mix up.
I definitely agree with you on Zero, I feel like Zero is the best in vanilla (I know you are high on him too). Dante and Phoenix I feel are more even-ish with Logan.
I was gonna say that wolvie could just bait out Haggar and mash cr. L to all hell (not anymore thanks swiss cheese!). But Haggar was a nightmare for many characters though so it wasn’t like Haggar was just good for Wolvie. Haggar/Tron both made change how you had take on most matchups for most characters.
the amount of semen spilt over vergil will be biblical
the amount of tears shed when you relize what he is, will be epic
nasty image forms Heh. Well then what is vergil to you?
There a reason we have not seen the single move that would solidify Vergil as S tier? His taunt.
Thank god I’m not the only one who things this.
Vergil’s moveset alone makes him at least “pretty good”.
Zero’s amazing, but he has a few glaring weaknesses like a lack of invincible moves (jH may seem like it, but no, you can get hit out of it), bad damage scaling on his normals, lack of invulnerability on his command dash and low health.