2361

I was playing around yesterday and doing: Jump, call Cap assist, helm breaker (hit), shield slash (2 hits) -> continue combo seems like a nice starter. The shield slash will keep them airborne after your helm breaker. Other than that doing trick M after Cap-Assist call is pretty good mixup as well.

2362

I would always put him first. He is great at building meter himself, and doesnā€™t really need a battery ahead of him. If anything, he needs assists and other characters to extend his combos and help him DHC.

2363

So I was messing around with Vergils Spiral Swords super and was wondering if anyone was able to get unblockables with Vergil and an overhead assist. So pinning the opponent down with sword storm after a hard knockdown and then calling an overhead or a low hitting assist and then go for an unblockable. I tried with Viperā€™s burn kick but was unable to combo after it

2364

Hey cjay, can you elaborate on this for me? I donā€™t have the bible and would like to know more =)

2365

So I want to a local tournament like 2 weeks ago and didnā€™t do too badly, but when I got knocked out the guy told me 3 things I could do to become better were make my vergile teleports safe using assist, use my assists more in general, and learn what moves I can use to play ā€œfootsiesā€ with people. I had to ask him what footsies was and he told me that it was moves that had decent range and very fast start up times that you can use to combo into.

So what moves with vergile can I use as pokes or footsies? It seems like I canā€™t punish anything that my opponent wiffs cuz Iā€™m using forward heavy.

2366

I just want to leave this video of Japanese play, that, in my opinion, has one of the best reset technology with Vergil/Swords and Nova Assist.

[media=youtube]rZNQrYDiwq0[/media]

2367

Thatā€™s fairly old. Itā€™s just unblockable set up using Spiral Swords and Nova assist. I have been talking about it in this very thread about 10 or so pages ago.

Congrats to Zeus on winning FFIV with his on point Vergil. Very solid play all around and hope others can learn from it (I know I have).

2368

Can anyone test out how invincible Rising Sun is as a crossover counter? (without DT) My HDMI cable died on me, so no PS3 for at least a week.

Iā€™m playing team trench coat with Dante on point, and I hate blocking in this game, it leads to bullshit that I canā€™t even begin to deal with. I was thinking of never blocking if I have meter, and since Vergil can get full combos off Rising Sun cc without burning extra meter (and is safe), it gives me more options at the start of the match.

I apologize if this has been discussed earlier and if this is the wrong place to ask.

2369

Any footage of this?

2370

end of part 1, beginning of part 2

2371

If youā€™re right next to your opponent on wakeup and do a tiger-kneeā€™d Dimension Slash ( :qcf::uf:+:atk::atk: ) it should cross them up, but this game has rolls so you could get out of it. Vergil has a tracking teleport though so that makes the gimmick more sound (oxymoron?).

2372

Real talk the best way to open an incoming character up is taunt> team hyper combo.

Also Vergil shouldā€™ve been the only character that couldnā€™t whiff cancel into special but the only char (except C.Viper with her ex moves) who could cancel specials into other specials at the cost of 1/5th a meter. It wouldā€™ve added a deal of depth to him without necessarily breaking him

2373

Cancelling stuff into teleport and vice versa easily could become broken much less stuff like roundtrip into judgement cuts. Honestly, RoundTrip + assists + judgement cut already deals really really good chip.

2374

I really dont get why vergil is the only character in the entire cast that can not cancel whiff normals.

2375

Because then heā€™d be his DT version without using meter. Itā€™s already very difficult / impossible for some characters to approach him as is without taking massive risks. Imagine if any time he messed up he just cancelled to L judgement cut completely shutting off approach from the horizontal effectively controlling over 2/3rds the entire screen space without any risk at allā€¦

I mean when I go into DT my vergil just starts spazzing out with st. H into stuff and people without teleports / 8-way dashes have no option but to sit there and wait for it to stop. Also itā€™s really not that hard to not whiff with Vergil and his Lā€™s are safe enough on whiff generally that you are safe and they beat almost everything and for what they donā€™t beat st. H just has to be used intelligently.

Stuff to help not whiffing.

-Slow roll your strings to discourage pushblock attempts and when you dash st. L or dash cr. L delay it sometimes to see if they want to block then push you away as most characters canā€™t contest Vergilā€™s buttons and will resort to that tactic instead.

  • Keep block strings short. Generally just doing stuff like raw st. H -> Judgement Cut is fine. You probably wonā€™t always confirm into the correct distance unless you delay to check for the pushblock, but even then if you opt for the closer one generally no character can catch you without a beam hyper if they pushblocked.
    -No reason to ever do Lā€™s into Mā€™s as they have the same range and both combo into st. H and cr. H.
    -Consider single normals into teleport mixups as getting pushblocked sets your opponent up for teleport mixups, the increased blockstun can also be used to call an assist and get roundtrip on the screen setting up your offense.
    -Donā€™t poke with raw f.H except when itā€™s a known punish as the hitbox has little vertical range.
    -HelmBreaker is safe at max range if done low to the ground so consider using that as anti-air in place of st. H at times.

Midscreen
Try to do stuff like Mā€™s into stinger if you think youā€™ll get blocked as Mā€™s combo into stinger on hit and while there is a gap they canā€™t interrupt without using an invincible move. Also if they XF guardcancel youā€™ll throw them.

Poke with st. H about 2/3-3/4ths of itā€™s maximum range as itā€™s vertical range is stronger near the middle and close to Vergil then at the end. It is also very fast at 10 frames and will beat most other peopleā€™s pokes.

Corner
cr. L -> st. H -> Judgement Cut is really strong and is pushblock safe if done at about half cr.Lā€™s max range. Also there is a gap between the cr. L and st. H on block they canā€™t get between so when combined with the low block stun of cr. L pushblock attempts on this will sometimes net you damage.

2376

He canā€¦just only into supers, not specials. Which further emphasizes the whole point of his game play. Which is mid to long range dominance, left/right mix ups, and access to the most supers in the game (whereas Dante has access to the most specials in the game). His normals are way too long for you to be whiffing them regularly any ways if youā€™ve learned to play fighting games to any decent level any way. His footsies are really easy considering with the range itā€™s nearly impossible to whiff any way.

He has the longest ranged normals in the game for somebody of his speed, mix up and ability to close the gap. Heā€™s just another one of the meter/power up style new characters they put in the game. If he could do what he can in Devil Trigger all the time he would be IMO no contest number 1 in the game to a silly level.

2377

I think I may have asked this somewhere else in the thread, but I donā€™t think it really got answered much.

What are Vergilā€™s bad matchups and what are good strategies to fight him? Most of the higher tiered characters I donā€™t struggle with too much, but for some reason, Vergil is my biggest problem. My three teams are Ammy/(Still trying to fill this slot)/Doom, Tron/Frank/Sentinel, and Deadpool/Morrigan/Doom.

I know that Vergilā€™s normals are very unsafe, but in a game where everything can be cancelled, that doesnā€™t mean much. And considering his range and that some people know what theyā€™re doing, he VERY rarely whiffs. The only strategies that have worked for me are careful zoning and baiting teleports.

2378

i might pick up vergil, his teleport mix ups and resets are scary .

2379

so I placed 5th at a tournament yesterday running vergil/wesker/doom with the obvious assists. Iā€™m posting my thoughts on the matchups I played as well as some tricks I used at the end. mostly for myself so I donā€™t forget but if you can take anything away from it, go for it.

beat a bunch of people but the only major win was against mattP (top 16 at apex, beat dieminion etc) who runs wesker/somebody/taskmaster. anyway the point is that I think vergil is pretty solid against wesker points, one of weskerā€™s weaknesses that a lot of characters canā€™t exploit is that for all his speed, his range isnā€™t really all that good, so swords and vergilā€™s big ass katana makes it pretty rough for wesker to do anything to vergil

I got beaten by both dieminion and noel brown who split first so w/e. dieminionā€™s team I went into training mode against and realized two things that I wish I had known before the match. one: viewtiful joeā€™s only pressure is jump pizza slicer over and over or whatever, and if you just block that and donā€™t pushblock while you have swords out, you get him in blockstun and stop his pressure since he has to be so close. I canā€™t elaborate on this since I havenā€™t worked on it enough but itā€™s something I wanted to get on paper so I donā€™t lose to him next time (the matches were close, and Iā€™m ashamed to admit I dropped a vergil combo that let his last character live in game 1). I didnā€™t have any problems against his dr strange so idk about that and his morrigan is just a huge bitch that I hate. by the time he gets to her you probably wonā€™t have vergil alive, and wesker/doom suck against morrigan bs. considering switching my team around when thereā€™s a morrigan/trish/phoenix anchor so that I have access to teleports, but that would mean I have to stop sucking with doom and wesker and relying on vergil XD

noelā€™s games there were no gimmicks or anything, so I donā€™t have too much to say about his specific characters, besides I think s.L is your best move against wolverine. it beats upclose divekicks if you time it perfectly and thatā€™s the hardest pressure you have to deal with. pushblock him out and do s.L > s.H > s.S and do whatever confirm/cancel you want to make it safe, but you donā€™t get too many shots at this, trust me. I did play against his wesker/haggar/phoenix team afterwards and obviously the games arenā€™t as serious and itā€™s not his main team, but I won most of them because dark phoenix loses to spiral swords easy, and he wasnā€™t blowing meter with either of his point characters. I think just doing the math off of when somebody might die or whatever, against phoenix anchor characters I might wanna switch to wesker/vergil/doom or even get a different point character so vergil is probably alive when phoenix comes out. same concept against the chars I mentioned earlier.

tricks that worked on everybody at the tournament

-round trip crossunder: learn the timing of when the second phase of round trip ends, so that if you do round trip > teleport behind and they jump to block it, you can cross back under right at the last second so they come out of blockstun barely and you can hit them like that. worked on lots of people game 1 especially at the beginning.

-rapid slash > DT > immediate grab (if they blocked)

itā€™s the same concept as x-factoring and grabbing, people wanna block, especially if theyā€™re in the air since you have the option to crossunder there, too. so jump up and snatch them, vergil does plenty of damage meterless off of a grab. the only thing is that you need another reset to kill a character, so what Iā€™ve been doing isā€¦

-judgment cut on an aerial opponent (like after swords loops, instead of a final lunar phase) > s.M > teleport behind > cross back under

this is the dirtiest thing in my arsenal, I love it, and it works on everybody Iā€™ve ever played at least once, no matter how good they are. if you have the right assists you can even call that when you do s.M > teleport and get one mixup there, and then cross back under if they block that. this was raising eyebrows and itā€™s really fun to hit.

anyway imo vergil is one of the best characters in the game and if I was a better player I wouldā€™ve been able to turn those close games against dieminion and noel into more tourney wins for vergil. Iā€™ll work on it, promise :smiley:

2380

Yeah teleport and then cross under after a Judgement Cut st.M/st.L is really dirty. Round Trip mix ups are also slowly become the staple for the character as far as opening up people at a distance without using assist.

Never thought of using Rapid Slash -> DT and air grabbing opponents. Thatā€™s a good one to have in the bag.