Figured this out in training just now …props to anyone who can guess the method, I’ll reveal how soon 
Just a dumb glitch with no practical use, or maybe it does…
[media=youtube]tJwuFaZEYws[/media]
Summoned Swords then Blistering Swords in the air at the same time holding down-H to kara the Helm Breaker?
Yup, you just do d+H~S, but I did it while in blistering swords, of course you could do it as activation too
Pro vergil tactic you can do the same to him. Push block > confirm whiff > st. C.
Counter to this. He gets push blocks and he bionic arms anyways ; ;
Isn’t pushblock > st.C counter to any character in the game though? Well, most with unsafe normals. Ironic, it’s a good counter to other Vergil’s.
Yeah, big difference that other chars can cancel on whiff and Spencer into a 4f startup invincible hyper…
If you sniff out an arm from long distance you may have enough time to activate spiral swords then just block, the arm invincibility will wear off and you get to combo Spencer.
Try it out promise you’ll get mileage from it. most specials are too slow to beat out the st. H not to mention they have to confirm the pushblock. Works amazing against characters like wesker where people just do cr. B -> st. C or cr. C -> st. S. Bitches can’t do anything but eat the damage or cancel to counter super.
Remember all these counters are completely psychic guesses on your opponents part, its the equivalent to random dp’ing. If you don’t do anything but continue to block they die or burn loads of meter for nothing. Its a strong tactic to use. The counter to this is people staggering strings and re-dashing in after like a cr. L that leaves them plus, but again lots of times you can beat out the redash by simply holding up-back or doing a cr. or st. L. If someone doesn’t have onpoint reactions to pushblocking you’ll score a lot of easy wins.
I despise how effective team columbine is…I really don’t like it.
The more i use vergil, the more i see how bad his high attacks are, his jumping H seams like it has a huge hitbox when in fact its quite limited and i never hit my opponents with it. His jumping M its not any better at getting the job done, also why the hell is helm breaker not an overhead? Its like the opponent does not even need to block high when im using vergil…
Question is, how can i improve my low/high mixup game with vergil? or am i limited to left/right?
You’re pretty much limited to left/right Vergil to be honest. Or unblockables. Nova’s centurion assist helps Vergil a lot when going for high/low mixups.
So, for anyone else who also didn’t realize this, Vergil can cancel helm breaker into any special on landing when in DT. Seems to me like airdash -> helm breaker -> judgement cut would be a great way to get that +12 on block to get things really going.
I see…, is jumping S an overhead?, is it safe on block?
It is an overhead I believe, and it works out great if you land it, get the wallbounce, and continue to a long combo. But in my experience, it mainly works against beginners. It’s easy to see coming once you’re familiar with Vergil’s game. And it is safe on block, 0 advantage/disadvantage I believe. It’s very easy to wiff with though, and unsafe if you miss.
Yeah… just from that alone it sounds like you’re missing the mashing :tup:
Jokes aside, it would be highly unlikely… but maybe you’re mashing just enough to get the exact same outcome as not mashing… but that would just be silly.
MVC3 in general has forced Marvel into a game where there’s a heavier emphasis on left/right mix ups. You are in a new age of Marvel where you must get rid of the high/low mindset every time you want to do a mix up. The entire reason they put Vergil and Dr.Strange in the game is because they wanted people to learn characters that are completely centered around the left/right. X-23 is a lot like this also and is part of what took people a while to get used to how she’s played. She has a ton of ambiguous left/right stuff but if you’re just looking for high/low with her you won’t have much except for a move that can be easily air thrown.
j.S has the same properties as Dante’s killer bee. Does not hit overhead. It’s just safe on block (0 on block). The only real high/low you’re going to get with Vergil without assists is air dash H when in DT and that still whiffs AFAIK on smaller characters. You definitely have to be thinking left/right first with Vergil. Your goal with Vergil is to find a way to force your opponent to hold forward to block. Round Trip, Rapid Slash and assists + trick M and sword super are your main tools for such. When you get your opponent afraid and force them to hold forward to block…that’s when you can fake them out and attack with standard pressure from the front and open them up due to the fear of possibly having to hold forward to block your next move again.
It’s not that you’re limited to left/right so much…it’s just that like Wolverine or X-23, without assist help your main goal is to get people to hold forward. Once you get the opponent to feel like it’s a good idea to hold forward to block your mix ups, you’re on your way to winning.
Than
Thanks for explanation, maybe your right and thats the way to use him.
Maybe is my mentality that a character to be good has to have high/low mixups that is wrong. I will hit the lab and try new techniques. Because now, to be honest im having trouble getting in with him when fighting some of my friends, even more the times when im left with vergil alone in the team.
Also, i think we should have a vergil mixup tread.
that’s definitely true for a lot of characters, but hi-los are still relevant in this game, especially when you consider low/oh assists, triangle jumps, and instant overheads (and the resulting OS’s that come from them). some characters have both, some have neither or just one but primarily utilize other means to accomplish their goals. i think the primary difference between marvel 3 and previous marvel/vs titles is that this game is much more ground/normal-jump/bottom-of-the-playing-field centric. couple that with this being a capcom game, it only makes sense from a design standpoint that crossups would become more important than previous marvel games for tactical effectiveness and variety (even though, i’d argue mvc1 had plenty of the same crossup tactics…with lou assist anyway:wink2:)
vergil is certainly a very deliberate crossup character with very intentional tools meant to do exactly that. i say your best bet when fighting him is to stay off the ground (and maybe bait a trick H, since he’s not as strong in the air), but that’s a bit of a problem for a lot of characters, since they’re not designed to be threats from anywhere else BUT the ground (welcome to marvel 3) sans a few.
i have to admit though, i love this character. he’s blatant and there’s no mystery as to what you should be doing with him. i also like how his tools are naturally designed to deal with pushblock VERY well. and his DAMAGE. i really thought this character would require lots of meter to do damage, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
oh yeah, team dmc is pretty retarded.
Yeah…it’s just there are characters pretty much totally built around the left/right mix up in this game when in MVC2 there was almost no character like that.
He has some interesting left/right mix ups off his j.d+H with assists. I’ll post some stuff up when I get the chance in my Vergil thread.
Vergil has a mix up or a reset situation from just about every move he has. Even if you whiff the last hit of Lunar Phase in a combo, it sets them up perfectly for a reset/mix up. He’s also absurdly good at whiff punishing other characters (although it’s super easy to whiff punish him as well so that balances itself).
But that isn’t what has me scared about this character. I am hearing stuff like “lockdowns” associated with Vergil that I NEVER thought would be associated with him. People should be thinking outside the box with the character a bit.
Impossible. I did it too many times for that to happen. I noticed that unlike most other mashable hypers, the counter never went up by 2, only 1. Do you have to mash harder than normal for this particular hyper? I know ultimate web throw requires an unreasonable amount of effort.