I’m using Medium>HP chain as hit confirms for combos, especially when i teleport behind. Can someone tell me if this is safe on block or should I be using something else?
When you use the otg assist, is it best to use the sword hyper to follow up? If so, what are some solid combos afterwards? When I try to do a combo after summoning the swords, the opponents fall out rather often…i’m guessing I’m not using the most efficient moves.
Check the combo thread for Spiral swords follow ups. Lots of combo options showcased. Best to squeeze in as many Lunar Phases as possible in my experience.
Okay, I just did a naked Dimension Slash about 20 times mashing and 20 times without mashing at various screen positions and both capped out at 39 hits and 329,200 damage.
Am I mission something?
What about making a frame data thread?
I think it could be useful.
I can compile the frame data and make the thread if you want. But it’s not as useful as you’ll think, lol. On block, Vergil can make most of his unsafe moves safe with the use of assists/teleports, rising sun > trick down, DT cancel, Spiral Sword cancel, etc. Even advacing guard on certain moves leaves him too far away with his massive range to pull off any reliable punishment.
With that said, I’d still be more than happy to make the thread and compile every last bit of frame data.
I do not own the brady guide so I can only suppose which of his normals are unsafe.
I you don’t mind writing down the fame data i would appreciate it.
I was recording rising sun > trick down in training mode and I think that Vergil is still at frame disadvantage after doing so. Not a big disadvantage but if you’re facing someone with a fast :l: you’ll have to block after landing from the trick down. Can somebody confirm this?
Rising Sun to Trick Down is like -3. Very difficult to punish reliably and “practically” safe.
Also Vergil can solo combo after his Rapid Slash in LVL3XF without burning meter. Just had to put it out there.
I agree that’s hard to punish but we can’t continue our pressure and are forced to block
For that it’s better to use L Judgment Cut which is a only a 3 frame gap in between the string. Most people don’t know about the gap to counter even if they can.If they block Judgment Cut you are in heavy frame advantage.
Random fact: Vergil’s Round Trip hit box is hella buffed in Devil Trigger mode. It like covers 1/3rd of the screen that’s how big it is.
Yeah, Round Trip, Lunar Phase, Rising Sun, Judgment Cut, and Rapid Slash are all buffed in DT. Even his teleports are faster, and his normals recover sooner. In fact, every single attack and movement he has in DT is faster, or has a larger hitbox, usually both. The only thing not strengthened in DT are his other Hypers. Damage goes up, speed increases, and he can cancel attacks into specials on wiff. Something other characters can normally do, it’s insane.
I’ll put up the frame data later tonight or tomorrow latest. Need to work on some university stuff first, then I’ll be set.
Seems like the writers of the guide would rather you not.
Frankly, if someone wants the frame data, they can either pay for the work someone did, or they can compile the data themselves.
Alright, I’ll do some hard work to compile it myself and put it up for you guys. wink wink
DT will never be worth the meter unless its to guarantee damage/kill. If it isn’t guaranteed then your just potentially kicking yourself out of the game by saying … I don’t want to gain meter for the next 10+ seconds.
Not even after Rapid Slash? using sword sin this situations scales the combo and also can lead to dropped combos with swords interfering.
Plus, this is why I pair Vergil with Morrigan.
That is guaranteed damage (yes I know it can be blocked but I generally assume it won’t be if I set it up right), so yes it makes sense there. His DT is not like dantes where your opponent has to be afraid not eat purple death and be obliterated and is quite easy to lame out while you basically sit there and don’t get diddly shit for a lot of work and risk you take. Can it be useful? Yes. Generally is it? Not in my experience.
watching Richard Ngueyn (sp?) on WNF and he has some interesting Vergil combos including doing spiral swords before an assist otg and jump d. H.
he also has a combo involving a raw tag with Dante
I said god damn at that Richard Nguyen Vergil stylin’. He definitely got a ton of mileage after Helm Breaker with Vergil, he really has been doing his research. Also dat Nova synergy with the sons of Sparda.
For me I’m like…I don’t really care if I can’t build meter for the next 10 seconds because it’s not like MVC2 where you can build meter when you whiff stuff any way. If you have like Vergil on point…you wanna get into DT pretty much as soon as you get the 2nd meter because all it takes is one reset combo while in DT to take someone out who already lost half their life. You can kill somebody in DT with just assist and round trip based left/right mix ups without spending more than one meter. DT’d Round Trip is basically a self left/right assist (which is necessary since he has no high/low game without nova overhead assist). The hit box for round trip becomes fucking giant in DT and sets up cross ups extremely easily. Which if they block it by that time your assist will be recharged any way.
Plus if you play him like I like to…you’re really just trying to set up the first kill so Vergil ends up going in the back as an anchor and Strange/Strider get hurp durp godzilla size tatsu assist (DT’d round trip).
I think it depends on the team set up, but right now I look at Vergil as my instant ToD if I have at least a bar stocked. As long as I don’t use DT and allow meter gain to continue. I look for any mixup into a BnB that ends in J.2H then an OTG assist to start spiral sword loops, because at that point for the net cost of like .2 meter I’m killing anyone at 950k or less health. If i’ve built up 1.6ish meters I can spend a 3rd meter in those combos and finsh off anyone under 1.1 mil for the net cost of 1.3ish meter.
So with the way I’ve set up my team (though some advice of your’s eariler Deviljin, much appreciated). I’m treating Vergil as a 1 mistake = dead character without having to use TACS or DHC’s. Now down the line when I’m faced with matchups that aren’t so favorable (specifically tiny pixies that aren’t as easy to hit the big loop combos on), I may look for a devil trigger DHC out to have access to buffed rapid slash assist.
At the moment though I am really enjoying using vergil + a horizontal control assist to start teleport mixups, and having an OTG assist to perform the gigantic combos that kill a lot of the cast outright for practically no net meter loss. It’s certainly not the only way to approach Vergil, and it may not even be the best direction, but I’m liking where it’s going thus far.