I know attacks from the air result in more damage and are usually better than air throws. But his air throw is really easy to combo off of, and I thought in UMVC3 that if people were jump happy, you abuse them with well timed air throws. Air attacks work well I guess, but sometimes j.S misses after j.C depending on the height of the opposing character.
K between the holidays and being home from work injured I was able to find out a few things last night. Things I found out.
He doesnāt gain meter when swords are on him (should check formations)
Tier assist - Combo Extensions
S Deadpool
A+ Wesker
A OTG ones
C others
Firstly, deadpools katanarama gives you an additoinal ground bounce per combo which leads to 885k consistent combos for 2 meters (net -ā¦75 bar) with the options to do a dimension slash at the end to reach 980-1080k. Basically at 2 meters this combo will kill about 1/3 the cast and 3 all but a couple. You can also use 2 meters on this one ending in sword storm and dealing about 780k
Having an otg assist opens very easy combo options for you that are easy to convert off random hits which otherwise he really doesnāt have. Random anti-air j. 2H can be converted to 600-700k instead of 300-400k and the like. IMO Vergil without OTG assist is quite gimped in comparison to him with oneā¦
Combo Iāve been using (yes you can add more hits but adding any hits actually lowered damage).
cr. B ->st. H -> f.H->Rising Sun -> Trick -> sj. MHS->cr. H -> f. H ->A Trick ->st. H->st.S->sj.H->j.2H->Call OTG Assist-> Sword Activation->OTG Assist hit-> Lunar Phase -> Lunar Phase ā¦
Deadpool continuations
a) Sword Actvation -> Lunar Phase -> Lunar Phaseā> (optional) 3H -> Dimension Slash
b) cr. H -> LunarPhase (meterless)
c) SwordActivation->RoundTrip->(delay)Sword Storm Formation>cr.H->LunarPhase (First Sword fires very near 1st frame standing almost meaty, and if they roll I believe it is meaty but needs to be double checked).
Other OTG assists your only option is 3H->Dimension Slash or you can do the Ā© deadpool ender directly after the first sword activation which depending on assist tends to net abou 680 or so.
Sword Storm Formation Tips and Tricks
If you use combo into sword storm and end the combo with Lunar Phase the swords fire very close to meaty timing. This opens up some cool opportunities.
Nemesis and Sentinel can be instant overheaded with j.L. Under this setup instant j. L into sword hit -> j.C->Land combo is possible and deals if you convert to the above combo typically 600-800k depending on what exact version you do and how the swords hit. Takes some timing but is possible.
Pressure
In the corner after making them block a Judgement Cut itās best to use cr. L if in range (has same range as cr. M) as itās 5 frames and will catch jumpers)
If you get pushblocked you get MAD + frames so you can do stuff like st. H -> f. H, or dash->cr. A and try to catch them jumping or doing anything that isnāt blocking.
This is also a good time to call asisst -> st. H ->(optional or depending on assist)f.H -> Beserker Slash as its a pretty tight mixup depending on assist.
When you combo off Beserker Slash always cancel into super after the 1st hit. The damage is MAJORLY improved.
Bonus
Death Combo on all cast off Beserker Slash (requires 4 bars ; ; )
Beserker Slash (1 hit) -> DT -> cr. M->st. H->f.H->Rising Sun->Trick->sj.MHS->cr. H->f.H->A Trick->st. H->st. S->sj.H->sj.2H->OTG Assist->Lunar Phase->Level 3->cr. H->Lunarphase->3H
Sometimes you need the last 3H sometimes you donāt on Thor. (Thor has more health than Nemesis ā¦ wtf?)
soo umm idk if im doing something wrong or what but im only get around 800k-820k with 2 meters with that combo how are you getting 880k and also what combo are you doing to get towards 1 mil? the part C.?
My bad supposed to be just one low attack to start cr. B (cr. A starter makes it deal about 20-40k less and cr.A->cr.B like 60-80k less). Only breaks a mil on certain characters because they are so big dimensions slash damage is pretty random but 880k is really consistent without the DS if you start with one cr. B. Seriously DS deals like 400k on Nemesis.
Since cr. A and cr. B have the same range doing both isnāt useful. In fact sometimes cr. A -> cr. B sometimes whiffs.
With an additional assist continuation you can consistently break a mil though. Deadpool + Wesker means 2 meter 950k combos with 3 meter over a mil consistent on all characters.
Yeah I agree with the assessment that having an OTG assist to continue combos after a random Helm Breaker is a must for Vergilās point game. You get so much mileage from it. I have been experimenting with Novaās Centurian Arts to mixed results for the same purpose (Helm Breaker, call assist, Rising Hightime). Works with Nemesis Rocket Slam for sure but uses your ground bounce early in the combo. Still good for a random Helm Breaker hit confirm. This is of course Vergil on point, on anchor if he has X Factor he can just do Helm Breaker, Rising Hightime, air X Factor, MMHS into death.
Have you guys been experimenting with Vergilās āair loopā like Weskerās j. LHS? Vergilās version is j. MMH delay the H. I still need to get the timing down for it, you can do it twice like Wesker.
How do you set it up? Air to Air? Need to figure out all assists that let you combo off hard knockdowns, still looking for a team build. Wonder if dark hole works ā¦
Also anti-air Rising Sun is absolutely unfair I was almost always able to combo off it after trick if the first hit connected. Even if they block it your safe (if they are in the air).
I only use it for corner air to air resets after like a Judgment Cut -> st.L (aka the āWeskerā). Get someone to tech recover then mix that up with MMH or f+H in the air. You can of course go into easy mode MHS but MMH saves your bounce but itās only really possible at a low normal jump height. MHS works at any height. I am still getting the hang of this, will post more notes once I get it down right.
I have been trying to find assists for combo extension after Rising Hightime as well. I got Rocket Slam which gives you a bounce and Jam Session but it scales heavily. I need to try Grav assist with Magneto see if that might work. RR Log trap works too I believe but uses a wall bounce.
Mags works someone posted a vid in the combo section. Supposedly Vajir works as well. Just Vajir doesnāt work exceptionally with vergil because of his crap otg options (has to XF to get good damage). Right now thinking Vergils best partners are Wesker, Dante, Dorm, and Deadpool. 3 of which are pretty high tier so thatās good for us.
iām new to mvc, i started using vergil and i saw combos that sent enemies to the air 2-3 times in one combo? why isnāt hit stun deterioration affecting it?
So in regards to Centurion Rush to extend a hard knockdown after Helm Splitter, I was playing around with it and found some other uses for it.
Anyways, Iāve been testing this assist out and while this assist isnāt the best for extending random Helm Splitters (Itās pretty hard to get over 600k outside of the corner), it can help set up some good reset opportunities.
Standard BNB of your choice ending in Helm Splitter > call Centurion Rush > High Time. Centurion Rush should connect with the opponent (timing is tight but possible to do consistently), and unless youāre in the corner it should knock them across the screen resulting in a ground bounce. At this point, the only possible way to combo is to Stinger + Trick, but since you most likely already used a wall bounce in your BNB it will send the opponent into the wall resulting in an immediate air tech.
Since the opponent is forced to tech immediately after the wall bounce, you can set up some tricky resets by choosing different Trick teleports after Stinger to mix up your opponent after they air tech. I havenāt actually tested how effective this is yet as I just started playing around with it in the lab, but from first glance it seems like an interesting reset for Vergil + Nova players. I need to test this out more.
If you are doing BnB into Helm Breaker - > Centurion Rush -> Hightime you can do Sword loop after Centurion Rush follow up or you can do Dimension Slash. However since you already built the meter from the combo anywayā¦ you can let the Lunar Phase rock into hard knockdown activate Spiral Swords and teleport if need to with Centurion Rush (because now itās no longer a combo) into unblockable set up. They have to block the Spiral Swords on wake up and if you space it right they have to block the overhead and Vergilās own lows. Any connected hit is a free combo because the swords lock them in. I am pretty sure this is what PRBalrog was talking about with Wesker + Vergil unblockable set up with swords only I have seen that Vergilās overhead attacks arenāt that reliable.
If you have the Round Trip charged up going into Centurion Rush you can go into Sword loops with Round Trip -> Judgment Cut or you can go into Round Trip -> Judgment Cut into mix up situation. With the round trip coming back and the Judgment Cut holding them in place itās the perfect time to go for a potential reset. If you manage this in the corner itās extremely dirty because the round trip is coming back from off screen.
Capcom at least had the brains to make Vergilās teleports one of the slowest in the game (possibly the slowest at 30+ frames of recovery?) because any faster he would be insanely hard to block/read. You can make Vergil almost impossible to read in LVL3 XF + Devil Trigger (essentially LVL4 XF).
Tested this further.
Solid stuff, reminds me of a Wesker-esque corner mixup situation, something nice to throw out once in a while.
Iām gonna see what other applications this assist has, fortunately it looks like Dahbomb is way ahead of me on Vergil/Nova technology (glad you stopped by from NeoGAF to spread some knowledge btw, probably wouldnāt have considered Nova with Vergil until I saw you talking about it yesterday on your first post).
Back to the lab
I have to credit Yipes for the Nova + Vergil combination even though he hasnāt actually explored their synergy in matches.
I already knew about trying for the unblockable/OTG set ups with Wesker + Vergil before the game even came out and I kept telling people about it. I didnāt even know going into the game that Novaās Centurion Arts hit overhead because I heard Seth say that it didnāt prior to the gameās release or that it reset your ground bounce. I am not using Wesker as much because people get too salty over Wesker and I am exploring other synergy options with the V man.
It goes without saying but everyone including myself still has a ton of soul searching to do in this game. Even after a week, I still feel I know very little about my characters (aside Wesker of course). Also Vergilās ādash under cross upā is exceptionally strong just like Danteās. The fast dash plus insane normals that hit from behind him combine to create some disgusting cross unders. I totally get that people havenāt explored Vergilās reset/mix up/mind game options yet because the first steps to learning a new character is learning his combos and neutral game which I feel are still vastly unexplored by most Vergil players.
Yeah, I saw Yipes using Nova with Vergil on the CC tournament but I didnāt know what to think about the combination at the time. I thought he was using him specifically for the overhead assist, other uses outside of that didnāt occur to me besides the standard āc.L a lot until the assist hits and I can combo now.ā
Iām most interested in Vergilās mix-up/reset game right now, more so than his combo potential or neutral game. I work backwards for some reason. Before the game came out, I always thought he would play more like a Wesker with sword normals, always looking for resets and saving meter for mixups and unblockables rather than 5 meter TODs.
Weāll see, Iām definitely feeling Centurion Arts with Vergil right now though, especially if it can help lead Vergil into favorable mixup situations. I was originally going to use Wesker with Samurai Edge, but I couldnāt find a use for it outside of extending combos.
The reset technology with Vergil that I have gotten down is basically Rising Sun BnB into wall bounce combo then I do MHSH. This causes them to go into soft knockdown roll position because you already used up your ground bounce but it happens so fast that you can catch them on a back/front roll. For back roll itās simple, call assist and Teleport M. For front roll, I do assist call with L Teleport. I practice resets with Akuma assist because it gives them less time to react. If they block the reset then I can fish for a Rapid Slash into Spiral Swords and if they block that I can go into teleport M into unblockable set up. In the off chance that I mess this up, I have a charged round trip read by the end of Spiral Sword to apply the pressure and buy time for the assist call.
Instead of MHSH reset starter I can go into MH Judgment Cut L. st.L fuzzy guard set up. I can either teleport after this with Akuma assist, I can jump up grab or I can do jump up MHS or MMH depending on how they tech. This needs more ironing out but this is basically the basis for the āWeskerā resets with Vergil.
I think people arenāt exposing the reset tech with Vergil because they want to save them for tournaments. Itās ok to post combos and stuff but there is a ton of stuff on Vergil where if you havenāt seen it before you will get opened up. Best to keep stuff like that under wraps first. 
One thing that I have discovered is that the very start up of Rapid Slash and Judgment Cut looks very similar (he backs up before doing the attacks). I once got someone with a raw Judgment Cut on an accidental input but the guy was blocking the other way because he thought I was doing Rapid Slash. This is worth noting I feel as far as mind games go with Vergil.
Good stuff, I hadnāt considered that as a reset situation yet.
I need to start writing this stuff down in a notebook, I havenāt bothered because I havenāt commited to a team yet.
Soul searching is such a pain in the ass. At least it doesnāt look like itās going to take me 4 months like it took me to soul search when Vanilla dropped.
Youāre basically explaining the way heās supposed to be played but people got lazy after seeing his neg frame normals and not being able to cancel whiffs without being in DT. He has plenty of reset/mix up potential you just have to play him a bit more crafty and less hurpy durpy than Wesker on point so you can build the meters you need to get going in DT.
Agreed. I will stand by the notion that heās Wesker with a sword until the day I die.
Vergil in UMVC3 is a pretty solid representation to what he was in DMC3.
Dodging or using Royal Guard to block his normals made him wide open.
But if he landed that hit, He made it count.
He was not as flashy as Dante when talking about cutscenes aswell. He was usually straight to the point.
Vergil accepted his demonic side a lot more than Dante in DMC3.
The additional speed boost made him more lethal.
Which I find fitting in umvc3 that his normals become more safe and his specials become more enhanced. Since giving superarmor during DT mode would be redicilious.
No, fuck that. When he devil triggers all of his normals should just be Hulk coming out and doing standing H until they explode.