Sieben, Bold Cancel is his basic cancel mechanic that goes from Square to Triangle to Circle. Empty Cancel is just a name that was coined.
Also posted a new Dante Combo Exhibition Video:
[media=youtube]-Mc_Xtkhf7M[/media]
Here’s some more practical stuff.
Basically Dante’s aerial arbiter hurl (air down circle) is his only projectile that causes hit stun and people don’t (ab)use it as much as they should online. If you zip around close to the ground with forward triangle and angel steps, you can toss these out mid-range and still get a followup that nets anywhere from 60-160 AP.
Also, for long range followups the scythe twirl is probably the best to use since it has a larger hitbox. Even if you dash up too late and the opponent recovers, the scythe has a good chance of catching the opponent if they don’t air dodge immediately out of the flip.
[media=youtube]ux11-eOIHFE[/media]
New to the game and even though he normally wouldn’t fit my play style I gravitated to Dante. After reading some threads/looking at some videos I have a few questions.
Do you all use the analog stick or the dpad to play?
Dante’s grounded D3 seems to work exactly like his j.d3, yet in all the combo videos you all use j.d3. What is the difference?
I am hoping to get involved in the online community. I’ve been playing my bros copy of the game and used the online pass on his system. Does anyone know if you can have two online passes active on the same disc so you can go back and forth between systems?
Trying to get my brother in the fraggednation tourny…if anyone wants some 1v1 practice against Nathan Drake add him: Bdub_88
My psn is: Conspiracy
I’ll be back on after this weekend.
Nice practical stuff nopassword. I’ll add to the videos section. Its great cause Arbiter is his only projectile so I’m sure people will find this useful! I know I will!
Was watching another video of Protronic playing Dante. It looked like he was able to string combos without doing EBC but instead using u2, n3 then 111. He was even able to combo into it. Has anyone else tried this?
Hey, I have seen that before I think its known as the “Parry Cancel”. I think in a laggy match that would be more consistent perhaps but in a ideal situation I think it would be best to stick with the Empty Cancel to maximize AP gain. Although maybe the Air Parry could be useful in FFA situations where other opponents have an opportunity to try and interrupt your combo. Why not give it a try and let us know how it goes? I’ll give it a go if I have some time.
I am so frustrated with learning EBC. I know I am overthinking it but it seems I am only getting it right about 10% of the time. I am somehow finishing with helm splitter about a third of the time. I am trying to do b.u2, f3, 1. The input looks ok but I am either missing the u2 or finishing with dash 1. Like I said the input looks good but doesnt match what it should be doing. Is it possible I am entering the input too fast?
I found it easier with the analog stick, do you all use the dpad?
Hi guys, new to the thread, awesome stuff so far.
I just wanted to contribute by answering to the people who say that Dante is unsafe, since he definitely has ways to stay safe and still deal big damage, but I didn’t find anyone mentioning it so…
What I usually do is hit-confirming with f.1 (only first hit), which is completely safe on block AND on roll, has great range and gives some sort of crumple which means you can combo afterwards on hit. It’s also great for punishing rolls. I think it’s his best move by far.
I never really use neutral 1 since it’s unsafe, except for punishing opponent’s unsafe moves.
And yeah, j.d3 is also a great move. Its angle of attack makes it annoying as hell since it completely destroys projectiles spammers, builds a good amount of meter, it’s completely safe and most importantly you can combo afterwards.
Dante’s problems are opponents who are constantly in the air, since that alone makes it virtually impossible to combo into super. That’s why his helm breaker is so vital in his gameplan: you bring them down, and then you mix them up trying to predict a roll and punish accordingly. I also use j. u3 to build meter against these opponents.
I’m not sure I understand your post. What is neutral? Doing this will make Dante face forward even after your last directional input was back?
Welcome to the discussion, Duaie! You have a pretty good point w/ F+1 and its a great combo starter for sure. Also no_password has a pretty slick video of using Tremor to try and keep safe when using Neutral 1 combos for the rare times you go for it. It’s been quite useful, props again to no_password for that.
Conspiracy: Oh excuse the neutral part was for arcade stick inputs. Neutral is letting your stick go back to the center.
Lets talk about execution and practice advice. Of empty cancel into level 1 super of dante. I play on stick and I’ve been doing the ubT dfCC method often what happens is I do a fireball very low to the ground. I’ve done u/bT, bC d/f+C I can’t get the timing sometimes it feels super fast to the point I feel like I’m mashing other times quick. Sometimes I’m doing it so fast the up does not even register -__- the only issue I have with upT bC,C is I feel like I’m not turning around fast enough can anyone explain the square method again ? Is there a N while doing it on a stick ? Also while doing bCC is or the dfOO method are you guys holding d/f? Taping it ?
Can’t say because Im not on a stick but if you hold d/f you will end up doing a arbiter hurl or a s3, neither is your intended ending.
I practiced again for about 30 minutes last night and still can’t get this down. I am much better when facing right and can do it about half the time but I still end up facing the wrong direction. After too long I get frustrated and end up wanting to break the controller. I am thinking of switching to a less combo reliant character which a easy combo into level 1 but want to give it a few more days.
If its not too much to ask can someone please make a video of their thumb when doing the EBC. Thats how I learned to DACUS in smash bros…this is giving me a harder time than that.
Honestly for me on stick the U+2, j.B.3, 3 is best. The movement itself is efficient you just need to be a bit precise.
I was thinking of another option you could do for Aerial Arbiter problems is. U+B+2, j.F+Circle, Circle. This would give you less chance of hitting Aerial Arbiter. It may feel a littler weirder though. Using Square is useful if you are too high and trigger animations like Aerial Arbiter or a Parry. Sorry i’m busy and can’t type a lot lets revisit this if you have more issues.
From my experience, whenever I get the fireball close to the ground it’s always because I do it too early (NOT too fast, just too early). I don’t think it’s a matter of inputs, since I also use ubT dfCC. My consistency with empty cancels is around 90%, it’s just a matter of understanding the timing.
Try to delay the EC inputs a bit, it worked for me.
Trying to slow down on the inputs but then find myself thinking about it too much. I’ll give it some more time tonight. If not…I’ll just go back to my no tech very basic game and try to perfect that. I am still missing easy combos.
Yeah it definitely comes with practice, good luck!
Wow! I can’t even start to explain how much I was overthinking it. For anyone that might be having issues a good tip is to input your up direction when the third swing animation is still going, then input 2, b3, 3. Using 1,1,1(u during animation), 2, b3, 3. I am about 90% good. I still having some issues with facing the wrong direction, ub2 is giving me issues.
Thanks for the help.
Okay here is the thing about ubT dfCC I think I’m pressing CC so fast the df input is registering twice. I’ll try it slower
Update here is the crazy thing I can definetky do the empty cancel by itself. I can’t do it when I throw 3 boxes in front of it. 0_0
Warning: wall of text incoming.
As ProjectSeoul said, it’s called a parry cancel. I demonstrate it here in my first combo after the initial square chain.
[media=youtube]AavwtvRTJ7I[/media]
I’ve mentioned it before on other fourms but i’ll say it here too. Don’t bother with parry cancels. If you can perform empty cancels, don’t use parry cancels. If you can’t do empty cancels, skip over parry cancels and practice until you can do empty cancels.
Here are some things that empty cancels allow you to do:
- Create longer combos by cancelling attacks with long recovery.
- Add gunshots to chains to increase AP gain.
- Cancel moves on hit to stay safe (if other opponents are approaching).
- Combo into super.
Parry cancels can do 1) and 3) but most people would say that 2) and 4) are the most important factors of empty cancels. Even though its capable of the first and third, its to a lesser degree compared to empty cancels.
Regarding Point 1)
While parry cancels can extend your combos, it can only do so off the third hit of the square chain. All of his other moves do not provide enough hit stun to allow the parry cancel to recover to continue the combo. Empty cancels can combo from neutral square and forward square chains where parry cancels cannot. Using this to extend your combos is impractical too. Most square chains end after the third rep since it gives you better choices to end your combo. In this case, you would probably do [square, square, square, parry cancel] x2, square, square, square, up square (follow), square, square, square. This is essentially the basic square chain to launch to mash square aerial ender with two extra reps in between which would net 150 AP. Technically you could do [square, square, square, triangle (full hits), forward circle, up square (follow), square, square, up square, triangle (full hits), forward circle, square] for 150 AP. While they both net the same, the second one is much shorter and it launches you into the air much earlier keeping you safer than the long grounded chain.
Regarding Point 3)
Being a cancel that utilizes his parry move, it does keep Dante relatively safe from other opponents who rush up to attack you mid-combo. The problem here is that once you perform the parry cancel, you’re locked into the parry animation. If an approaching opponent decides to punish you with super, there’s nothing you can do about it. Even if the approaching opponent does attack you and you parry it, best case scenario is that you knock them away, land and drop your combo on the first opponent resetting the situation.
If you do use gunshots after a square chain, it gives you more options compared to parry cancels. It also gives you time to look around to see if you should continue your combo or back off. Take the same scenario as above but you empty cancel instead. You now have the ability to dodge roll if you choose and possibly get the chance to punish the second opponent who tried to super you. Even if you didn’t empty cancel yet and were still doing gunshots instead, you could do a regular bold cancel to angel step to dash away (e.g., getting away from Jak’s lv 2). If you choose to you could even try dashing up to the opponent and catching them off guard.
In the end, empty cancels can do everything plus more when compared to parry cancels. Don’t use them. If you really want to learn Dante, learn his empty cancel.
While I haven’t tested it on stick, I recently learned that the empty cancel can also be performed with [up back triangle, up forward circle, circle]. This may be a bit easier since you aren’t sliding across diagonally and can just slide it across to the side.
Hopefully that helps.
Also, something that I completely forgot about but it helps greatly for some of the larger maps. You don’t need to run up directly beside the opponent before you start your melee attacks. You have a dash that works wonders for covering distances. If you use a raw grounded angel step, you can cancel it into any of his square attacks (more important is that it retains the full chain). If you cancel into angel step from any triangle attack, your neutral/side square attack out of the dash will be the fourth/third hit from the neutral/forward square chain. If you and an opponent are running towards each other online, chances are that once you’re within range you can dash into neutral square for a free combo since they’re probably expecting you to run up real slow to reach them/lag and online reaction times.
Great post no_password! I’ll have to try the U+F+circle. I can test it out on stick later tonight and get back to you guys. I completely forgot about Angel Dashing into Square/Triangle/Circle attacks until someone commented on one of my videos about it. It is definitely a great way to get in and I think it definitely helps against characters with projectile/range advantage.
no_password, i’ve been putting your Aerial Arbiter hit confirms into my game and I gotta say it’s been very very useful. Especially when using Prop Shredder, like you said even if you don’t hit you have a good chance of catching them out of the air tech. I’ve been meaning to play with you but i’ve been a bit busy. I’d like to do some 2v2’s with you. I could probably learn some stuff as I really need to work on my multiplayer game.
I think one thing we haven’t really discussed is match ups with certain opponents. I think that would be great to get input or ideas from you guys. So far my hardest match up seems to be Drake or any projectile heavy character.
Dante vs Drake:
Barrels - Do not even try to Parry these things. It will usually end up with a barrel exploding in your face. You can use Prop Shredder to destroy barrels but the recovery time on Prop Shredder may allow your opponent to punish. Aerial Arbiter does NOT destroy the barrel. Durability points on Arbiter is lower and it won’t even trigger the barrel to explode in most cases. If you attempt to short hop over a barrel Drake can short hop and counter with a Magnum shot sending you across the screen bringing the fight back to a neutral situation where you need to navigate through bullet hell of grenades, magnums, tranqs, and barrels.
Also considering Dante only has a few hit confirms are that more execution heavy than most characters we can be at a disadvantage in tense or laggy situations. I know I’ve dropped EC’s when a kill was depending on it due to nerves or lag.