i’ve never played AE so hard to say… although here’s a few things you can try.
focus the dive kick
backdash the dive kick
block the dive kick and react to any jump with air throw or instant nj.HK
cancel a blocked MP into opposite wall regular FBA
try seeing if dive kick will whiff if you can time a cMK to lower the hitbox (probably wont work but it’s an idea)
cHP to beat dive kick
sHK to beat dive kick
react to dive kick with U1 or U2
try using CH as an AA
try using SHC as an AA
try jumping off wall into jHP combo
try blocking and backthrowing
try nj.HP
try pushing them back with cMK/cMPxx roll
try forward dashing under them
try sweeping under them
try s.LK
Edit… or just try all the things ajunta listed above lol
Thanks for the Honda advice I need to learn how to be more patient sometimes. Do you know if he can get airthrowed out of his butt drop thing or am I just better of focusing them?
he can be air thrown but it’s hard… safer and more damaging to focus the buttt drop and combo or forward dash outta range. personally i always try to stay full screen and wait for headbutts… 90% of hondas will do it… 10% will learn pretty fast and just keep trying to push you into a corner. look for them to do a whiffed o-throw (they building meter) and either… build meter yourself or U1 them.
Basically i’ll stay ful screen and just randomly empty jump (so i can block if i time it bad) or jump on first movement on whatever they doing. then i try to hit them with jHP sHP cMPxx EX FBA and repeat. sometimes i’ll be too far and only get a jHP or jHP sHP. if a honda can get around that on me then i lose… aka jewelman, mike ross, the honda from airzona i cant remember the name of… etc
-St. rh anti air his jump ins
-Ultra 1 his whiff ochio throws
Walk fwd a bit and stand mk hondas headbutt that is not jab HB or EX HB
-Jump fwd Strong.
-Scarlett terror trade anti air is not to bad
-You can U1 towards honda headbutt but only when honda throws headbutts from 3\4 to fullscreen HB
-I personally back dash during hands so I get hit by one and it pushes me back like 1/2 screen to avoid major damage and chip.
Other then that it really becomes a turtle/life lead game
I know its cliche, but its pretty much all about picking your shots and patience until you are able to get in close proximity.
As far as his teleport mixups, its strange, because some sims I can punish on reaction, but others they seem to hit me every time, so i’m not exactly sure. If that happens I usually see if I can punish or not, and if I can’t, I take an alternative.
Yeah unfortunately. And I played a really good Honda tonight I wish I read up on the previous post about the matchup. I got bodied a couple times then tried to be a little more patient and did better, but didn’t do so well in the end. I hate Honda
Standing jab, learn to love that move on back teleporting sims resets him into vega territory
Jump back hard kick when he uses fireballs in combo with teleport.
always pick u1 to catch fireballs, ballsy pokes,teleports, fireball > teleports and his instant overheads (bait his instant overhead by constantly crouching, punish with ex-fba or ultra! :rock:).
Get closer like you would a booming guile… just inch forward with walking and blocking.
predict fierces when you can for focus dashing closer and charging that godly ultra in this match DONT JUMP!
When inside slide range, vega’s slide actually works quite well against limb heavy sims… Well worth the risk of a jab/short hitting you out of it once or twice, because the reward is good damage and your getting to pick your distance.
Do not fish potential moves with ex-fba!!! When you miss his slide is not hittable and you will waste ex and always get damaged.
When you have the lifelead just chill at full screen, sim is easy to lame out for vega when you catch his teleport attempts…, because when sim tries to get close normally, the tables turn and he gets raped by vega’s pokes.
personally i find standing roundhouse or fierce to have a better angle to hit him… but usually they throw a fireball. best bet if that happens is to just wait till the last second and instand jump backfierce (after teleport or empty jump forward if he hasnt). standing jab may work but i don’t see how it’s a better option.
i agree with the walk forward idea with sim unless you have a life lead deal. but that’s pretty balsy to do against guile. i have the opposite strategy vs guile… stay full screen, focus and ultra sonic booms and wait for him to come to you. then play with his wakeup using jump back fierce lol. i match the sim in jumping. the more they jump the more i jump because i feel i have better air to air vs sim. especially on the c.fierce and j.fierce. sim’s j.fierce loses to vega’s j.fierce. LP version SHC is also useful as long as you’re not full screen.
i dunno about slide… i use it at full screen to counter c.fierce but that’s about it. the startup gets me hit a lot
yeah ex fba is dangerous but if you trade off j.fierce you can hit him with ex fba
If Dhalsim is doing psuedo insta teleport mix ups outside of wake up Ultra, then Dhalsim isn’t respecting you enough.
Any teleport mix up outside of wake up Ultra = free air throw. Very easy to do and depending on what you hold after the initial nuetral jump you can throw him very far away, or you can throw him down very close to you.
scenario
Dhalsim is pushing to many buttons, he then does insta air teleport. Time it so that you jump as he materializes. Hard to explain the visual cues, but very easy to do. Even if you are above him the grab will still grab him.
Just wanted to add a little tip for the Honda match…
If the strategy for the match up here is to stay in the lead with health and keeping your distance, do a Scarlet Terror once you see Honda start up the flying headbutt. Distance is key in this match. Keep yourself as far as possible from Honda and you’re just playing this match up pretty safely. Many would probably criticize the ST as being too risky to punish the headbutt. What’s my answer to this? PRACTICE. Just spend some time in the training room and get the timing right of the ST against the headbutt. E honda does not even have to be predictable in order for you to pull it off, the Headbutt startup is pretty slow. An Ex headbutt is a bit faster by a frame or two IMO. But then you must consider the pattern of the typical honda players. At mid ranges or in certain situations, do not rely on it.
You should know the pattern of most Honda players…if you’re across the screen, they will launch themselves in order to get you cornered or in close range to get others attacks on you. Unlike being mid screen or close range where they can land that butt slam (Standing FA is the best response to that move. Don’t crouch FA!), They have no other option but to do that. At this distance, just read them, bait the attack, and once you see them make a move for the headbutt, just do an ST…DO NOT wait for Honda to be in the middle of the screen while doing the flying headbutt. You will attack Honda, but the damage will be greater on yourself. He’ll also beat your recovery and get up before you (Can meaty the flying headbutt, or cross you up if you’re in the corner. Don’t worry about doing it too early. It will miss you and both of you will be at close range by the time you both recover. <<<<-----Keep that in mind and you’ll probably be a bit more secure about the move.
Once you get the timing down, start using EX ST as the safest way to punish the attack and for more damage. For some reason, I feel a longer range from that attack in comparison to a normal H. ST. Haven’t tried M.ST yet…I think I works. You can try. (Now that I think of it…I am now curious of an ST>Splendid claw and it’s reliability in THIS certain situation. I’ll try when I get home.) I usually use Bloody High Claw in most match ups I play, but with Honda, I would suggest U2.
This is a strategy if you are planning on playing the "wait, attack, and take control " strategy. As someone said earlier, it’s all about taking the lead in health and playing by distance. This can also be situational in a regular match.
At mid ranges or in certain situations, do not rely on charging that move and taking chip damage for it. Just do Standing HK immedeately. All together, this should discourage Honda from doing any more flying headbutts from far range or even from a long charge, but the strategy for Honda will change if the Honda you’re playing is “smart”. Thats your cue for your typical offense…Good luck.
I have gotten better in this match up recently. And also interesting read of the tips on the Dhalsim Match up. Been having trouble with that one.
And I think the Match with Dictator is 4-6. 3-7 is kind of an over exaggeration if you ask me. =\
here’s the problem. that works well against scrubs, but as Mike Ross put it to me, “A good Honda will rarely full screen headbutt.” ST can beat out Honda’s headbutt… that’s true. But the problem with ST is that you have to hold downback, which means you cant move. which makes it easier to get in on you. I sorta agree with keeping distance, but solid fundamentals is what it’s going to take to beat a good honda. the other problem with doing ST is it’s not the most damaging option. If you just insist on saying full screen max distance i recommend Jump back fierce —> s.HP, cMP xx EX FBA. It’s a much more damaging, safer and easier option. but then again good hondas will not do full screen headbutts often. and after you hit them once with it, they probably wont do it again. Using meter on ST isnt the best option. where does it put you? Up close. finishing with combo into EX FBA gets you at least at mid range and at a good range to be able to react to anything he does. There is absolutely no reason to use meter on ST unless you’re doing it from a CH or a cMK, and even that’s debatable.
here’s the other problem with doing ST… what if the honda does an LP version headbutt from full screen? It’s pretty hard to tell which version of the headbutt they are using and still be able to time a reaction. If you whiff, you’re a sitting duck. go ahead and kiss a good 30% health gone. less if they are nice.
They have options other than headbutt at full screen. and most honda’s will try to walk you all the way to the corner, which is bad. you can try to walldive to get out… but if they play solid and just keep on walking, they can punish a walldive from anywhere on the screen.
Just FYI ST doesnt combo under any situiation into U2 unless you stun. If you want to combo into U2 you have 5 options:
-AA CH to U2
-Jump-in HP/HK into U2
-Counter hit cMK into U2
-Stun into U2
-Focus Crumple into U2
Personally I use BHC in this matchup for 2 main reasons:
-it does more damage than U2
-it just as easy to land as U2
Either ultra works about the same from my perspective. they both beat headbutt. they both beat butt slam. Any range you’re going to land U2 you can land U1 from, so i just pick the higher damage option.
The thing about honda (or really anyone for that matter) is that you really cant do just one thing as an answer. People will pick up and adjust. If you try to beat somethign every time, your opponent is going to make you mess up by staying just outside your range. When you whiff against honda you get hurt
The thing is… you place a LOT of emphasis on headbutts. Those are the easiest things to deal with. It’s the o.throw/100hands mixup up close/on wakeup that makes the matchup hard. headbutts will take maybe 10-15% of your life if you eat one. It could very well be the round if honda gets in. Staying out at a distance is extremely hard to do vs a good honda. They will just keep walking you into the corner and they wont let you out. You have to sit there and keep guessing right taking chip and playing solid defense whiile waiting for a mistake
This is how to beat honda
[media=youtube]TQkweAwhqns[/media]
This is how NOT to beat honda
[media=youtube]imx5UvWetUE&playnext=1&list=PLB70DBD895AA06480[/media]
[media=youtube]3o50voIGwNg&feature=player_detailpage#t=252s[/media]
And here’s random matches I found while trying to find a vid of how not to beat honda lol
Joz vs MrSNk FT10 YouTube - joztron’s Channel
Tatsu Vs Mike Ross (yeah I know it’s vanilla but it’s still relevant solid gameplay)
[media=youtube]QPR_bl1Xvu8]YouTube - House of Cicada SF4 Tournament - TOP 8 [LB[/media]
Duey Vs Mike Ross
[media=youtube]6cxs0yBFI1Q[/media]
I tried to Jump back-fierce before and it did not always work really. But I never thought of continuing my offense if he were to recover. But you do make some valid points on the EX and ST. It’s a useful tactic though but I can see where you’re coming from when facing a more varied Honda player. Possessing more gauge would be pretty resourceful at this point. It all worked for me yesterday online. :razzy: But this is some pretty helpful stuff (videos) and i’m gonna have to try the continuation when I get home.
OH and I did not know U1 can beat those two moves! I guess I don’t need to practice with U2 afterall.
I did notice how Ross knew what Tatsu was waiting for…I would have been dissected if I were tatsu using my not so reliable strategy…Also, I saw all those Joaz Vs. SNK videos the other day…They were hard to watch… -_-
jump back fierce works great on scrubs or people that dont know the matchup… any honda above scrub level wont fall for it tho, or might fall for it once. Holding downback and moving back in general is bad. You HAVE to stay outta the corner and it’s hard enough to go around honda without getting hit.
Yeah a lot of people seem to completly forget (both vega users and opponents) about the viability of U1… even offline. in this matchup i’ll watch how the honda operates. most honda’s wont throw out headbutts to try to set stuff up. they’ll use butt slam. so i sit on it. when i see butt slam i go to the wall farthest from my opponent. you have to have fast reactions and there are times you’ll have to even buffer the input and just press KKK when you see the motion. that’s how i nail guile on their sonic boom spam. buffer the input then just press the button or not depending on if i see the move or not. Just be sure to hit them with the claw part of U1 and not the juggle part of U1
Edit: I’ll usually try the Jump back fierce to test their matchup knowledge at first and I can usually tell within the first 5 secs if they are decent or not. Based off that I’ll either keep it going or go back to solid play. I also use a very crude “OS.” Sometimes you’ll do jHP and they’ll be just outta close s.HP range, I’ll continue to input the cMP just in case but if i’m too far it wont register and i’ll just get far sHP which even though it’s at -4, there’s nothing that honda can do to punish because of distance (MAYBE 100 hands but i’ve never seen it)
resets him into vega territory
