Something unforseen: the matchup guide reached his max characters. Gotta contact Jinrai…
Thanks for the Viper review, it’s excellent! But maybe we can add which wake-up strategies are effective? I think I recall slide beating EX Seismo on her wakeup, maybe OS will work well in this case…
Any matchup review is very welcome, but for me the most needed would be the ones where it is difficult to find good players and thus we usually have little experience with:
1.- Rufus, worst match-up ever if you find a good player.
2.- Dhalsim, this is one case where I feel that a better knowledge will boost enormously the chances of winning.
I just played against a friend (C-Royd)'s shotos/boxer, and concluded the following:
Vega incurs a serious disadvantage between the 3 and 4-bar online threshold. At 3 bars, he loses the ability to punish fireballs full-screen with Ultra (on reaction), where you would barely make it with 4 and comfortably with 5. I was missing it against Sagat, which is understandable, but then I missed it against a Ryu’s jab fireball and that just blew my mind.
For the sake of your sanity, play 4-5 bar matches only.
I’m from Ireland, so that’s not an option, unfortunately…I take any match I can get.
I salute you, sir. I had to give up on xbl because 80% of my fights were no better than 3 bar (and I got tired of just punishing bull shit strategies for 80% - 90% of my matches).
Nothing irks me more than losing to a scrubby Ken player who spams Shoryu the whole time just because of lag.
At 2 bars, I have to question using Wall Dives since it’s incredibly hard to compensate. Sometimes I’ll have to press punch write after Vega leaps from the wall in order to time an Izuna! O_o
@Joz,
Here are some of my tough matchups that I’d love to see you do next:
- Balrog
- Blanka
- Honda
- Ryu
Chun Li - 6.5 - 3.5
This is one that it seems we all have trouble with.
The way I see it, this is a bad matchup anyway. Chun has some of the best footsies in the game and while Vega can try his best to hang, in some cases he’s outmatched. Chun’s standing fierce and sweep, as well as her quick jabs and shorts can pose a great problem in this match. Up close, she’s nearly unmatched in her tick throw and mixup game, and it’s tough to get pressure started on her if she begins making use of her jump straight up roundhouse. She seems to excel in many of Vega’s positive situations, so it’s tough to really figure out what can get to work on her.
Up close she can deal a lot of hurt. Her short and jab are extremely quick and make her tick throw game quite deadly. If she has some meter, she’ll hit you with devastating EX legs combos that could mean an ultra if you’re in the wrong place. For the sake of not eating an entire ultra, it’s best to stick to the center of the map for as much as possible. Her throw pushes you a good distance back so make sure you’ve practiced teching throws as her walk speed and general quickness make it really hard to keep up. If you crouch, she can hazanshu or jump out roundhouse. Jump out roundhouse can be punished on hit, I’m almost certain, but with what, I’ve never tested myself. Sweep an EX FBA would most likely do it. For this reason you don’t have to worry about this overhead, so instead you should always be on the look out for hazanshu, and it’s really one of those things you can’t give Chun the opportunity to be succesful with. If you show a weakness to this move you’re in for a lot of frustration. She can even combo out of it which makes it an overhead you need to defend against properly. she has some other quick low pokes, including her sweep, which poses a big problem as its really quick, beats several of vega’s pokes, and is an untechable knockdown that can create a really bad situation for Vega at any time. It’s punishable on block with c. mp so make sure you keep chipping away if she tries to gamble using it. Meaty kikoukens can be solved by an EX ST, but don’t think it’ll solve all problems as you could be swept if she walks in with it or hazanshu’d. However, you can beat hazanshu with an ST and her jump straight up roundhouse can be beat by ST.
Chun’s jump is really slow but she has many air-to-air weapons. You shouldn’t be getting jumped in on often, so make sure you’re creating space if you see her jump. Trying to anti-air her can be unsuccesful as her j. rh beats a lot of your ground options and her target combo can also beat normals. In the air, target combo also beats a lot of your options so make sure you play smart air-footsies by changing the arc of your jumps and utilizing every air-to-air normal you have ; j straight up forward, roundhouse, fierce, and triangle jump forward, strong, fierce, roundhouse, and even light kick. Try to utilize your air grab for good measure. In most cases you need to bait aerial movements so you can get the surprise maneuver, but don’t make your choice predictable as you can get punished hard with target combo. Constantly going up for a jump up roundhouse can get you some hurt if you do it too many times, so mix it up with a jump back strong if you have to. For the most part, the air game is sort of a dogfight as both of you are on pretty even ground, but you need to use your quickness to make holes that you can expose. Cosmic Heel under a jump in instead of meeting it to simply stir the pot as you can never have her get away with getting you in the air easily. Her jump straight up roundhouse can pose a big problem so position yourself outside of the range of that and don’t commit to a jump in that she can counter with that move. Use your neutral jumps to keep her out, mixing up with roundhouse and fierce, and make sure you to defend yourself with the jump back maneuvers as well. Don’t jump into her often as she can meet you in the air with something before you can react, and it’s generally not a gamble you’re in a good position to make. The air-to-air game in this matchup is pretty shaky so simply try to do with it what you can. In any case, you should be making the safest maneuvers possible. Avoid the target combo and jump straight up roundhouse, because they beat many moves.
Focus can be a big part of this matchup. Her only focus breaker is spinning bird which without EX is pretty useless. Expose this by punishing her pokes and hazanshu. However, if she begins to jump in on you with target combo, you need to be aware of her movements and backdash / forward dash under as soon as she takes off from the ground. At close range, she can c. fierce or close strong you so stay at the range of her sweep and continually punish her.
Her biggest weakness is similar to Vega’s. Her wakeup game leaves a lot to be desired. In certain cases, being overly aggressive and eating an EX SBK can be a good trade-off as it costs her meter she needs to be threatening on offense with EX Legs. Like Vega, she’ll want to back dash a lot and try and jump out of your way. Make use of option selects in this matchup if you feel confident you can integrate them, otherwise you can try reacting to backdashes, punish them with sweep, or meaty Chun as often as possible so that she can’t be neutral jumping out of your way. If you msitime a meaty and she neutral jumps, she can turn the pressure game completely around and that’s something you can’t risk when her offensive game is so strong. Make use of her weakness by saving your meter for RCF FADC’ing and continually kara throw her.
A good option select to apply as a meaty that can punish backdashes is a meaty c. lk / c. mk (easier to meaty) on her wakeup, cancelled into a jab RCF, and then a sweep to punish the backdash. If you guys have questions about the option select, just know that if you do the c. lk / jab rcf fast enough, if the c. lk whiffs, the RCF won’t come out, but if it gets blocked / hits it will, and in the case of the c. lk whiffing, the sweep will come out after the RCF. So simply time a cancelled c. lk jab RCF as you normally would, but immediately press c. rh after the RCF input. This will work really well against Chun, but make sure that you don’t mistime your meaties or you’ll eat a neutral jump attack.
This matchup has me feeling :S a lot of the time and even after writing this writeup I’m not really sure I’d be helping you guys. To be honest, the option select on her wakeup seems like a good idea but to have to go to those limits to figure out a matchup makes me think I just don’t understand it all that well. She’s scary up close, she’s scary at mid range, and she’s tough to get in on. Take away the air and there’s not much you can do. However, you can always pressure her as much as possible once you get in, so make use of her large hitbox by confiriming into EX FBA or ST. Kara throw too to put her in the corner where she is at a serious disadvantage thanks to her slow jump arc. Air grab her to pin her down in her escape attempts and bait EX SBKs if you feel they’re coming. KKK Flip on her wakeup at her feet gets you out of the way and leaves you time to punish with sweep. Create opportunities to jump in on Chun often but beware, she can meet you in the air when you least expect it and hit you hard. Alot of Chun’s opt to go air-to-air with people so throw out your fierces and roundhouses early, mix up the timing and continue to apply pressure by simply making use of your reach in the air, using your air normals at different times.
ST can beat hazanshu attempts easily. It can also beat a jump straight up roundhouse attempt. If you’re not in on Chun li, my advice would be to hang and make use of your c. strong like you always do. Often times though, you can’t leave yourself open to the sweep as it can counter your pokes and create a terrible situation for her.
So… Chun’s scariest offensive tactic is kara throws. Hazanshu can be beaten by simply reacting and letting go of your charge and using ST, so on defense prioritize blocking low. If she overheads you with jump back roundhouse, punish with sweep or EX FBA. If you predict a walk up throw, c. mp and cancel into KKK / PPP flip to create space. Unless she reacts and dashes forward a bunch, she can’t chase you down since she has no torpedo move. Find your opportunity to create space to reset the situation on defense and react to her overhead options.
At full screen, don’t waste meter trying to EX SHC for a cross up. She can crouch under it. Kikouken also recovers pretty quickly so you can’t often get away with EX SHC counter. For this reason it actually poses somewhat of a problem. Don’t hang out at full screen and give her the option to come at you with a kikouken. Pressure her from max c. mp range and don’t give her the opportunity to jump in on you. Focus her poke attempts and go air-to-air to her, mixing up your air normals to go toe-to-toe with hers. Poke her to interrupt her pokes but be careful of the sweep. Punish it on block if you catch it. Jump in on her once in a while instead of poking, but watch for her charge, in case you end of jumping into many EX SBK’s. She can’t punish jump ins without the flexibility of movement, like Vega, so make her commit on a poke and punish it with a jump in, or at least a blocked jump in that you can use to initiate throw mix ups. Push her into the corner where she lacks any real escape options. Use meaties on her wakeup so she can’t jump out, and punish backdashes with the option select or just a sweep. Punish EX SBK with a sweep as well so you always have the option of using meaties on her. If she has no EX, go nuts. If she has some, lighten up a little, but make her waste her meter on defense so she can’t confirm into EX Legs on you on offense. It’s a better trade-off.
As far as Barcelona goes, you can use that to go air-to-air with her as well. It loses to her air throw though so make sure sometimes you throw out the claws especially early, and EX SBK beats it as well. The Izuna vortex works well, but at any point if she blocks a barcelona or backdashes out, she’ll just sweep you. If she has ultra, always cross her up, or she can ultra you for free. The ultra can also punish telegraphed PPP / KKK flips. Cosmic Heel gets beat alot by her sweep, so be careful to use it a lot less than you normally would.
Things to remember:
Respect the sweep
Control her meter game, prevent EX Legs combos by coercing EX SBKs
Air-to-air footsies, mix up your normals
Pressure from poke range, c. mp / jump in, kara throw game
Learn to block Chun’s mixups, cross up kick, hazanshu
Focus works really well in this matchup
Prioritize blocking low, punish overheads and tech well
Barcelona can work, Izuna works OK’
Sorry if this write up seems scatterbrained. The idea is that you can’t really outpoke her, but you too more or less go even. Without her sweep though, she struggles, so make sure you bait as many as possible and keep punishing with c. mp to draw her away from it. Jump in as often as possible but make sure you are spry because of her air-to-air capability. Stay smart on defense… she’s a very veratile character so she requires you to be awake. But, she struggles if you take her out of her element, so force her to play your game by punishing her go-to options and don’t be intimidated by her speed and mixups.
EDIT: Next, I’ll do Balrog, then Blanka, then Rufus.
Woo, keep it up Joz! I can’t wait for the Balrog matchup.
More than for fireball punishes, anti airing becomes a serious issue with poor latency for me. A fairly managable matchup like ryu becomes a big pain if you can’t get into the air in time, or position yourself on the ground well to deal with well spaced jumps. I am glad I picked up vega AFTER I gave away my system, because I only play him offline.
I still want to see what joz will say about the Abel matchup :lol:
I Know Blanka Is Stupid, and A Joke, But I Still From Time To Time Have Trouble With Him:( it’s that straight Roll & The Electricity That Get Me. What’s Good Against Them? And 2nd off My WORST MATCHUP is Hands Down is Bison. I Have A Huge History With Losin’ To Him. The Scissor kick, The Psycho Crusher, and The Head Stomp Are The Worst. and Sweep i usually Focus. I Need Any Tips i Can Get For Him as Welll
Putting caps all over the post is slightly annoying. Not flaming or anything, though.
For Blanka, jump-back hp/hk for the horizontal balls when you don’t have gauge; block and punish with EX Barcelona when you have gauge. For electricity, try crouching lk canceled into lp Rolling Crystal Flash or EX Barcelona or just move back and slide.
For Bison, block and punish the Psycho Crusher, try to avoid the Scissor Kick traps and punish the mk/hk/EX versions with crouching mp canceled into lp Rolling Crystal Flash or EX Barcelona, and just walk back when he does Head Stomp and punish when he lands.
A little strategy I found to be useful:
When you zone and space your opponent out, he will often attempt to jump in once he sees you do a poke. If you imagine to be playing a shoto or something and you’re running into a wall of pokes (believe me, from another perspective, cr.mp is so goddamn annoying) you will probably try and jump your opponents pokes on reaction. Well, either you hit him or you put him into a blockstring. I’m talking about the cases where you don’t have any time to anti-air anymore and are forced to block or eat the jumping attack (especially when it’s done early). This is extremely annoying for Vega, and I have found a little tool against this. This is a footsie trick. Whiff a crouching light punch instead. It’s like faking a fireball with a standing jab or something, with the only difference that it’s much easier to fall for this when playing against Vega since his cr.lp and cr.mp have the same startup frames. Cr.lp recovers in 8 frames though and if your opponent is foolish enough to jump, you can anti-air him on reaction. Try it out! :’)
^Been reading Maj’s articles, I see (joking :lol:). That’s a good way to land AA ST, though. Catch the opponent when he expects to pressure you on the poke recovery.
Funny, I just started doing this more. It’s great against Balrog. Throw out a c. lp, boxer goes for headbutt but whiffs, punish swiftly and heavily!
Ironically, this strategy can be viewed in a match someone posted yesterday:
The opponent doesn’t want to get zoned out on the ground, so [media=youtube]lMaJ2b4o3wM#t=30"[/media]
Van sees the habit the opponent has, fakes a few standing light kicks (7 fr. revovery) and cr.lp’s (8 frames recovery) [media=youtube]lMaJ2b4o3wM#t=4m54s"[/media]
That dude was worrying about being zoned/zoning? I thought he just wanted big combo damage all the time, so he just kept jumping. >_>
Well, that is another take on that situation. LOL
XDXDXD
…
Anyways, whatever the reason, he… was forced to jump. Be it his mental barrier of having to do combos to win or the superiority of the opponents ground game.
EDIT: I’m looking forward to the Chun writeup. That matchup is tough, sort of.
Ah… Sasaki, good shit, I’ve been wondering about a way to stop having that happen to me.
Also I did the Chun writeup. Should be on the previous page.
Balrog 6.5 - 3.5
Another uphill battle for Vega. Like the Chun matchup, you find yourself in a bad spot almost no matter what you’re doing. Between Headbutt, Tap, c. jab and throws, there’s a lot of stuff Balrog can do to really fuck you over. However there IS a strategy that you can use in this matchup, and he is very suspectible to a lot of shit on his wakeup.
First of all, Balrog’s offense. You need to be aware of his options. Let’s be serious; he doesn’t have much. A lot of times he’ll simply be waiting for you to tech and he’ll try to punish. A lot of Balrog’s begin jumping in your wake up (which any smart Balrog will ALWAYS do) then starting the c. jab strings into walk up throws. After you maybe eat a throw or two (or tech) he’ll try to step back, c. mp, rush punch, or st. rh to punish your whiffed throw tech. You have to be aware of where Balrog is and what he’s going to do. For the most part, it’s easy to learn how to defend against this. Get some practice in against any good Balrog and you should be able to figure it out quick. It’s not a very complex strategy and once you know what you’re dealing with, it’s easy to see coming. The problem is when Balrog’s start mixing up with meaty normals and throw techs at close range. If a Balrog anticipates a throw tech and throws out an early close roundhouse, you’re in for a world of hurt. For the most part, you should simply block against Balrog, but you MUST be aware of the dangers of being thrown. Balrog’s throw tosses you in the corner like no other, so you have to be spry and tech what throws you can. But don’t give him a reason to succeed in punishing those throw techs. If you try to tech too much, you’re gonna get stunned and fucked over. Also, he might try mixing up with headbutt, which is usually a bad idea on his part; straight up, you should clam up on defense against Balrog. He simply eats you up with his close normals and jab, so if he ever tries to take that gamble, you should be the one who is ready to punish with a c. mk ST or c. mp EX FBA (try the ST as you can save a lot of meter doing so). Honestly, Balrog shouldn’t be getting away with the swing blow. If you see his arm go up, don’t hesitate, but kara throw him immediately. If you hesitate, you’ll eat this alot. Personally, I have a bad habit of getting hit by this move. Don’t let it intimidate you. He can use the rush punches to continually close the gap created by chipping away with his normals, which is again why you shouldn’t be trying to make an escape or stick your arm out too often. If he does the rush punch from say, sweep range, he doesn’t have quite the space he normally does, so you can use this momentary gap to jump out or c. mp, but beware of a mixup with headbutt or sweep. His sweep is also realy fast but doesn’t do much damage, but the main danger of it is simply being knocked down and allowing BAlrog to jump in on you again. It’s bad enough on block that you can c. mp punish him, so c. mp into an FBA to get out and clear the area. Option select tech smartly so that you don’t eat big combos, but in general, make sure you capitalize on the gaps in Balrog’s pressure so you can clear out. If he has you cornered things get really tough.
As far as rush punches are concerned; your focus can do a lot of work but you musn’t telegraph them. If you rely on focus, you’ll start eating a lot of turn punches and swing blows. They destroy the straight, low, and upper, so make sure you can capitalize on those ones often, but it’s a tool you should use sparingly. If Balrog ever tries the full screen EX rush punches, St. RH them. Unfortunately it’s not very reliable in some instances, and often misses the dash low with the second hit. ST can solve this problem as well. Balrog shouldn’t be using full screen EX dash punches anyway. You can also sweep to punish them, which is a good tool against Balrog thanks to how easy it is to safe jump him. Another bad habit is trying to block the EX rush puches. A lot of times Balrog will use the EX upper to simply close the distance, and it really fucks with you since if you’re crouching it whiffs. Always make sure you’re defending yourself from these maneuvers. If you position yourself at counter hit range, you don’t run the risk of getting hit by too many headbutts since he can only use the fierce one, and you can defend yourself against the rush punches, counter the pokes and TAP, and create space when he jumps in. EX FBA doesn’t have much use outside of combos, but in combos, you can hit him with it from pretty much anywhere. Every time Balrog uses a headbutt and you have meter, close fierce c. mp EX FBA. There’s really not much raeson to hang on to your meter in this match unless you have severe momentum going and you’re looking for a stun with EX ST, or you’re fighting a Balrog who struggles to block eX SHC ( alot of balrogs i know struggle for some reason). EX SHC is punishable by sweep on block. If you can capitalize on punishing the headbutt and shut it down, Balrog is handicapped in that he doesn’t have the moev that beats the majority of your low pokes. C. mk also is a good defensive poke in this battle, but you always have to makes ure you’re not leting Balrog jump in. j. fierce has huge range and can combo into sweep really easily, so awlays beware of his potential on the jump in. j. rh is nigh unbeatable as well, so lif he’s jumping in alot, all you really should try to do is airgrab him. ST to mix up after you start using that, but never get comfortable using normals to anti air balrog. At a certain point, you will get beaten, cleanly. Also, if Balrog throws out a lot of jumping RH, you can punish it with a Cosmic Heel (if you’re outside the range of j. rh obviously). Cosmic Heel will also beat his pokes a lot, and his rush punches, but you have to be aware that you’re -1 on a cosmic heel. If you try anything, really, but back dashing, a mash jab will beat you. Be aware of the risks of this move, although it does have a big payoff and can see some success against Balrog. Also if you cosmic heel too often, you’ll get swept out of it because of it’s lengthy start up. A sweep happy balrog is not a balrog you want to use cosmic heel on. And because of the benefits of Balrogs sweep after it hits, you might want to be aware that in some cases you should use this move less often.
Up close, Balrog struggles on his wake up. Here’s a good trick I learned from frame data; a st. lk (not close) is fast enough that if you time it meaty, any headbutt that comes out will cause the st. lk to whiff. IF you notice this ( a TAP will cause it to whiff as well) get ready to punish. If not, try a kara throw or a cosmic heel to beat a normal attempt. You can’t jump in on Balrog much because of c. hp and if he’s holding a charge, headbutt, but you can succeed on the ground if you have the frame advantage. However, like I said, cosmic heel runs a lot of risks being used in this matchup and can cause you some grief if the Balrog is excessively turtle-y. The kara throw can get beat a lot by jabs unless you time it perfectly, so you always have to be aware of the risks you’re taking trying to move in on Balrog. Normally, mixing up with meaty throw and a meaty of another kind (st . lk) cause Balrog a lot of grief because he is forced to gamble with a headbutt to protect himself from the meaty throw. If you then use the meaty lk, he’ll whiff and you can punish. Exploit this to your advantage, but you must always be aware that you run a lot of risk getting close to Balrog. The reason this matchup is piss is because at any point Balrog connects with your ultra, you’re really fucked. Straight in the corner, he’s got frame advantage, etc. A lot of times I’ve perfected a Balrog, just to eat a desperation EX headbutt, then get reverse-perfected, essentially. You have to be aware of this. which is why playing defensively at counter hit range with c. mp is generally the smartest thing to do. Balrog has a lot of trouble getting around that but, despite the risks he faces trying to play defense, you face EQUAL risk trying to do damage to him here. You can have a lot of success with kara thorws but you have to prioritize using them with your most trusted set ups; close lk, c. lk, c. mk, c. jab and the like (stay away from c. jab, doesn’t beat headbutts). RCF FADCing is pretty good too but I’m so sick of that move and how much it sucks that I’m really considering never using it again.
Like I said, counter hit range is your best friend here. Balrog’s options are limited but you have a lot more freedom. but once he gest up close, if you guess wrong you usually pay. He stuns you quick, and he can punish backdashes easily with rush punches and TAP, as well as headbutt. You need to be aware of the ultra set ups and be careful of the desperation EX headbutt. Getting hit by an ultra is a ticket to a loss. If you can suffocate Balrog of the right to hit his ultra, you usually do very well. So… defense is key. You can get some mileage on offense but always be aware of the risks you’re running in doing so. Safe jumping, as well, is very effective because of headbutt’s extremely slow startup. If he does a TAP to sneak out, sweep.
Barcelona can be sucesful in this matchup but it’s really hard to pull off. On Balrog’s wakeup, you can beat him by hugging the wall for a short period, then veering toawrds him as fast as possible and cutting across his head to cross him up. A reversal headbutt gets beaten by this. TAP won’t though, but oftimes TAP comes out in the wrong direction. Outside of his wakeup, you can coerce him into going air to air with you in which case you can net some pretty easy izunas, as Tatsu had done against Coffee at WCW. another thing; sometimes Balrog uses the EX rush punches on his wakeup. This is why meaty throws are a good idea too. THey get beat easily by this, and i’m pretty sure that if you’re using meaty st. lk you don’t run the risk of getting hit by the punches. Even if you do you’re getting meter out of him which you should use to prevent the EX Headbutt from coming out. When Balrog has no meter, go nuts; but be aware that as soon as he gets EX you stand a high chance at getting hit with an ultra if you don’t risk assess properly.
Even though this writeup sounds pretty optimistic it’s generally really hard to do damage to Balrog and equally hard to get in on him once he has a lifelead. Between his pokes, jabs, and c. hp, it’s really tough to even the life. You can get away with same though, so make sure you begin each match by capitalizing on the meterless period. His rush punches aren’t much of an issue in this match, unless you like to backdash a lot, but his headbutt and ultra are a deadly weapon because being put in the corner means you have nowhere to run, and often you rely on a gap in his pressure to get out. If Balrog turtles really hard, you can always test the waters with EX SHC but he might sweep you if he blocks. no reason not to. Generally, you should bide your time closing the distance ON THE GROUND (never jump) and use c. mk until you expect a reaction, which you capitalize on with cosmic heel. just make sure you play smart footsies with him, using as many tools as possible, without giving him a reason to jump in, and without backing off too much yourself. Once you get in you can have limited success with a kara throw; enough to get some damage in, but it’s really hard to pull off comebacks against Rog. Make sure you’re the one who can turtle in this match and don’t let him in, don’t let him get you in the coerner.