Dance with the Claw: Vega Match-up Guide/Discussion

Yes, yes I did.

Hahaha!

So, at the Art of Fighting tournament I won 2 matches and lost 2. A Rose player barely beat me and sent me to losers, then an E.Ryu destroyed me there. The Rose match will take some getting used to, she has some great pokes and footsies. E.Ryu is pretty bad though, he has so much offense it’s insane and a single hit into 11 hit combo guarantees dizzy. I can handle Ryu fine but E.Ryu is such a beast :frowning:

So much for not needing a reversal :frowning:

Are you people aware of the tier rankings of those famous players do for their chars shown at Eventhubs? X’s tier rankings for his char, etc. Vega is mostly at “even” or at “unfavorable” (even against Rose according to Luffy and Ken according to Chris T.). Gathering from this, i think we have seen the day Vega is not in the low part of the mid-tiers anymore.

What do you think has changed the game for Vega and mostly contributed to this?

I think DWU plus general nerfs across the cast helped us, honestly. We got stronger because others got weaker. That and most of the current top 10 isn’t very strong against Vega.

Hi. I´m gonna introduce myself. I´m Loendal, a Vega player from Spain. First of all I want to apologize for my shitty english. I´ll try to do my best at writing.

I´ve been struggling the last four years with “shotos vs Claw match up” and I felt really “identificated” with Daijo´s comment:

“But rushdown tactics with playstyles that online lag compliments, how to deal with it?
Like for example, i have a ryu on me, normally my reactions could stop his b/s walk up sweep/srk/grab tactics, but online its just a mess.
Is my only real option backdash/focus bd and try to keep him out with normals?
the stronger the player, the easier it seems for me to win, but the cheaper tactics really blow me up haha”

I feel EXACTLY the same.

The only way I know to deal with Ryu is to SCAPE, FLEE, hit and run and pray for a time over if the Ryu doesn´t mess up and makes big mistakes. But when he gets to me, I´m dead.

I´m really a scrub, but I´ll apreciate if you take a look to some of my recent matches. Any opinion will be well received.

PD: I sound a little too formal :smiley:

Luffy’s view on Claw~Rose MU:
"I did a quick review of this matchup and how its in claw favor:"For Claw, Rose doesn’t have any bnb on him thanks to his fabulous hitbox, even ch cl.mk cmp spiral doesn’t connect if the clk mk isnt VERY close… And yeah Claw outpoke rose with his range, his c.mp is easy to confirm into ex barcelona. His jumping arc/speed are very good against Rose fireball; he can punish mispaced spiral easily with clp cmp ex barcelona… In that matchup, Rose really have to work to get damage as there is absolutely nothing from Claw that is punishable; while the contrary isnt the same!"
I actually spoke to Luffy via Facebook and ask.fm thus asked him about the Vega-Rose matchup thus that was his response.

Fun fact:
Rose doesn’t have BnB on crouching Claw if the clMK is not very close.
Claw doesn’t have BnB on crouching Rose neither.crMK crMP FBA does not works on her even from point blank.
(this is the case since vanilla SFIV. So yeah, this game is a joke.).
The best poke that Rose has in that MU is stHK. Claw pretty much can’t whiff punish it as the hurtbox around the height of crMP is placed too far.
As Claw does not have chain buttons he can only OS her backdash when he is point blank. When she “block then mash backdash” is ridiculous strong against him.
Her jump arc also does give Claw problems. He can only AA her from far away as usual. While she has EX ST and EX SS as tools that will work 10/10.
He has no 3f move, so she has an easier time spacing SS.

I’m not going to say that Rose beats Claw lol, that same way that I’ll not argue with someone that claim that its even. But Luffy make that MU sound like a solid 6-4, which I don’t think to be the case. It requires a good amount of MU knowledge to Rose fight Claw. Not so much the other way around though. But that doesn’t mean that it’s 6-4 in someone favor. Not if you want to look at the MU at high level. Last time I saw Louffy vs Claw he was not punishing a single blocked FBA and was still using focus vs EX FBA… on a side note, Filipinoman claims that this MU is 5-5, which is the route that I’m inclined to agree.

Nothing changed about my opinion on the Blanka MU. I still think it is one of our easiest MUs. But lately I have realised something frustrating. Vega has nothing to do against Reversal ex rainbow, you can only guess the right side to block. But if he is on top of you, it is a gamble. As it is a reversal, you cannot focus. If you slide, he hits you from the back. Backdash or f.dash are slow. kkk is too long, as he recovers and hits you on ur kkk recovery. ST doesn’t kick him out of it. You cannot airgrab. Air to air is a %90 failing scenario. You just have to eat that stupid move if it is done as a reversal.

Anything I’m missing about this?

(not extremely meaty) crLP OS crHP beats EX Rainbow Ball.

If you react very early you can crHP/stHK on reaction to the Reversal and beat it out before it leaves the ground.

Well, thanks Haztlan but first of all, i can’t do meaties to a waking up, ex-metered Blanka as he can do upball.

And second, i meant when he is doing it from far.
I knock him down and have the life lead. I don’t want to get close to that ugly thing, deal with his electricity and hop, let him do the work. When I think it is safe and im far, he wakes up with reversal ex.rainbow. Then what? He can manually control his direction and can hit from behind or back.

lol you won’t have an option that beats everything.
As I said, you can react to it. So you have to be at crHP range when he wakes up if you don’t want to guess which side we will hit you.

If he does it from a distance jump back mp can beat the rainbow ball.
Also even if you have to guess the risk-reward is not in blanka’s favor if he indeed tries to hit you as you can punish on block with cosmic heel-ultra if you guess right.

Question: can we have a list of giod option selects? I’m all about reads and rhythm so I think I shpuld take the OS seriously now. Thanks.

This Hugo absolutely destroys me. He shuts down everything I do, and plays like a psychic. Instant overheads he does his EX airgrab, when i flip he simultaneously dashes forward, and when i get knocked down its pretty much GG. I dont know what to do against his knee on my wake up, and it leads into 50 /50 that does massive damage.

^ Apart from some good reads in his part notice that you opened yourself up several times by whiffing cosmic heel or with mp.roll from half screen.
Also using fba ex or not outside of a hit confirm is suicide when he has meter.
Try playing more patiently and focus on whiff punishing as his moves have a lot of recovery.
Finally, use st.mk and cr.mk, the former for keeping him out and the latter as a hit confirm tool.

thanks, yeah i need to be patient, im so used to getting and peoples face. i must say this guy is easily one of the most patient person ive ever played. do you know of an effecient way to avoid the knee when u get knocked down?

Backdash will avoid a meaty knee attack and is safer than kkk flip. Still it’s a guessing game since both hugo’s hk and backbreaker will catch a wakeup backdash but are very unsafe themselves.
Hugo is +2 after a blocked knee so you are still guessing after you block one.

The thing is this: I don’t meaty on Blanka’s wake up, as up-ball will beat it. I stay far and let him do the mistakes. But when he wakes up with ex.rainbow, which is invincible on start-up, any early attack whiffs, you have to hit while he is leaving the ground, which is really hard to time in the heat of the battle. After he is in the air, I’m locked. Whatever I do will %70 get hit, %30 will trade. But I have to eat the damage which is what frustrates me. Such a cheap damage is unbearable. “He did it, you have to get hit” There must exist an escape.

You never meaty a Blanka just because he can EX Up Ball? So you never meaty a shoto, ever, because he can wake up DP?

If you’re trying to lame him like this so you’re susceptible to wake up shit. Like wake up sweep, wake up hop grab etc. EX Rainbow Ball is one of them. You can’t expect to have one tactic and go away with it forever.

And, again, you can react to it with crHP/stHK. No need to meaty + OS. Just sit there as you want and if he glows yellow you can crHP/stHK. Even if you fail to react in time you still have time to recover and try to guess which side he will hit you.

Not “never” but “mostly”.

In any case, if I hit him when he turns yellow, it can be an up-ball. And you are forgetting ex.rainbox is invincible during start up. Half of the st.hk’s done in this manner will whiff.

And again, the situation I’m talking about is when he is farther than any of my normals except slide would reach.