Valid points indeed, let’s wiat for someone more skilled than me, since all my experience come from online play alone where Honda has an advantage anyway.
I’m…not that sure about that. Ex Hb/Hp Hb does 140 dmg (unless point blank). That equals 2 far Mks from Vega. Vega’s far Hp does 120 dmg. one cr Mp xx ex fba goes over 200 dmg.
As for mistakes, I think Vega can punish mistakes better than Honda. His cr mp/mk have fantastic range and are simply awesome for whiff punish.
Regarding dmg, if Vega makes a mistake, the best Honda can do is cr mk xx hands-hk = 265 dmg. If Honda makes a mistake, I think Vega can do at least as good (cl hp-cr mp xx fba or cr mp xx st).
Now, don’t get me wrong, Honda does indeed good dmg, and unlike Vega he doesn’t rely on having meter that much, but I’m not sure if dmg is enough to even the plates.
I think it’s slightly in Vegas favor. Vega can somewhat consistently keep Honda out of the air, lk scarlet terror -> ex scarlet terror works at some distances, st.hk at others, cr.hp at others. Like others have said it is a battle for the lifelead. Honda is scary for Vega once he gets in since he does alot of damage and has a command throw. If you anticipate a buttslam on wakeup you can jump back airthrow it, hp and mp headbutt can be punished by ex fba, st.mk, ultra 2 or inch forward standing hp (abit harder). Vegas goal will be to whittle Hondas health bar down slowly, since it’s risky to apply pressure, while Honda will have to take risks to get some good damage in. I don’t really see where Vega would be able to land a cl.hp punish in this match however, the only thing would be if Honda does a random buttslam and lands right next to Vega without it getting blocked, but even that is hard to react to.
Basically, I think Vega wins this matchup by a small margin since he can out-turtle Honda. I do however think that this is a match that is very hard for beginner-intermediate Vega players. I’ve seen alot of Honda hate, and I hated him with a passion when I was learning Vega. Once you learn how to play it it gets easier however.
ah, when i think of mistakes, i’m thinking of you whiffing a cr.mp or just so happened to walk forward when you shouldn’t be etc. from footsie range i guess it’s even to me, just that his ex headbutt is too good to crack.
cl.hp can be done after a level 2 FA on buttslam. don’t worry if he’ll cross you up etc, by the time you reacted, he’ll already crossed you and so you’ll FA the right way, and will have enough time to do a level 2 as well
Also, from what I gathered from commentary: Vega can cr.mp on Honda all day.
^
=
Spoiler
Smiley whiff punish ! (^o^)/
How can Vega punish T.Hawk’s air dive? Can’t c.mk when he lands and Ultra II feels unreliable.
depends how far he bounces back. if close enough, you could walk foward, CH to ST, or you can just use ex fba. or sweep.
Played a VERY strong Abel player last night and had a hard time dealing with his mix up game. This is my first time dealing with a high level Abel and could use some help on escape options during a knockdown as well as ways to keep him out.
So far I learned that st.HK works really well against the ex version of his lunge punch. However, I’m having difficulties keeping him out after he uses forwad mk. to get in. I’m thinking of focus back dashing when that happens but I’m hesitant because over use of focus could result in me eating a raw ultra.
I had the most difficult time after he managed a knockdown. His setups after his command grab leads to mixups that are almost impossible to eyeball.
I managed to take a couple games on him by playing EXTREMELY lame. Is lame play the only way to win this match? Do I have any offensive options? Finally and most importantly, what are my escape options, if any?
It’s a guess. You have to choose between reversal ST (or U2, or backdash, and if you can use it sparingly… backflip and neutral jump) and throw after step kick. The cool thing is that any button press after step kick means a counterhit (except regular throw of course). On knockdown, again it’s a guess. However I remember hearing of someone talking about using jump cancel to cause either the TT or the regular throw to whiff, so that may be something to look into but it’ll still lose to meaty overhead or cLK/cHK. But yeah, sLK and sHK are kinda your best tools to deter Abel from getting in. Focus backdash is good too but every option carries a high risk.
Honestly, the only success I’ve found is making godlike reads and avoiding the KD completely. These are the matches I’ve studied heavily to learn more about the matchup. I spent a lot of time in Vanilla and SSF4 playing against Hav so that’s where I learned most of my knowledge from. Thanks to him it’s one of my better matchups but it all comes down to reads for me:
you can focus level 2 the f+mk. other than that, it’s all guesses. i tend to grab abel a lot when on the offense, but that’s if you know the abel player. it’s probably not worth it trying to attack him. go as lame as you like with st.mk, st.hk, lp roll (last hit) and jump back hp
That recipe right there is the only way I was able to win a few games.
Thanks for the Videos Vegaman. I’ll give them a watch when I get off of work. Try to study up.
I tried learning Abel in Vanilla and AE2012, so I’m a little familiar with his tools. It’s amazing just how many scrubby Abels there are online. It’s not until you run into a high level player that you truly experience the nightmare that he can be. I had a couple decent reads but in the end, a good read is nothing but a good guess. A high level player adapts really well making it hard to get a “good read” on them.
I added this guy to my friend list and plan to play the matchup as often as it takes to truly understand the matchup. What ever edge I find, I’ll be sure to post.
Another thing I learned and thought I might share is that empty jump into throw is utterly useless. SMH…I’ll never do that again. LOL
jump in os grab works pretty well
If a Abel player does a step kick in, and you go into a neutral crouch (rather than downback), the second hit of stand fierce will whiff.
First hit. *
What to do when fighting against Zangief? I know a guy who anti airs almost everything I can do with his Lariat.
you shouldn’t be jumping at gief (or anyone with a special anti air) anyway.
wall jump jHP at the right angle will beat lariat.
Damn it, wrong topic. If someone could delete this I would appreciate it.