Balls easy hit-confirms into Gadouken FADC combos.
Better corner pressure and mammoth buffs to punish and Gadouken FADC combos in the corner.
Better punish combos with a single EX bar. Easy linking from cl.HK means your Saikyo Crusher is now cl.HK > cr.MP xx Gadouken xx Chouhatsu xx Ultra (or even character specific things like s.MP xx cl.HK xx Chouhatsu xx Ultra).
Better footsies thanks to recovery being slashed across the board.
Cody-esque frame traps and counter-hit shenanigans all day long. Meaty ch.cl.MP = Easy-Peasy Ultra Link Special.
Editted for herp-derp cancel errors.
One thing I love is the fact that a blocked cl.MP > cl.MP xx LK.Danku is likely a great frame-trap in the corner or as a meaty now.
Seems to me that Shissou Buraiken will be the go-to Ultra to use again, with Haoh for specific matchups.
Dan Hibiki Counter-Hit Flow Chart
Knockdown > Meaty cl.MP > Buffer Shissou…
Did it Counter-Hit? > BURAAAAIKEEEEN!
Did it Hit? > cr.MP/cr.MK/cl.HP xx EX Gadouken FADC BURAAAAAAIKEEEEN!
Gadouken FADC is pricey, pushback might be too much, c.MP might be out of range or edge of range Gadouken tends to not combo.
Better corner pressure perhaps, how are mammoth buffs to punish when Dankuu is gimped?
s.HK seems to have as much pushback as s.MP, as such something like s.MP/s.HK > c.MP xx Gadouken has the Gadouken not comboing sometimes I’d still rather stick with c.HP xx HK Dankuu.
No change to s.MK and Gadouken though, are main footsie tools.
Yeah but remember s.MP is still only active for 2 frames, still +8 on hit +2 for CH = Shissou being 1 framer, good luck spotting the CH fast enough though.
How about:
0 s.MP
10 Hit?
IF YES GOTO 20
ELSE GOTO 40
20 KRK FADC > Haoh
30 END
40 c.MP xx Knee or KRK FADC or walk throw or pick your nose
50 END
Oh wait, I kinda already do that anyways. (I’m not a BASIC coder, it’s probably wrong :P)
They really need to up the number of active frames on pretty much everything.
Counterhits are +3 frame advantage, so Shisso would be a 2 frame link off the counter. And the nj.HP only knocks down when done air to air, like Cody’s, so it’ll still work fine when smacking standing/crouching players to start combos.
I do agree, though, that U1 becomes a lot more tempting to pick with these changes. Half my fun (because of my continued incompetance with FADC Ultras, though I’m getting better) is abusing Haoh Gadoken’s extended invincibility. It’s still a great comboable Ultra, but I’m going to miss going through Seth’s Tanden Stream with it, or bouncing crossup jumps back in front of me, or all the other things that simply become too risky with a halved invincibility window. I understand the change, having 15 frames of invincibility on a projectile Ultra is kind of silly, compared to Ryu’s and Dhalsim’s and Sagat’s and so on.
And for Sugami about the HK Danku damage change, Ryu’s HK Tatsumaki was taken down to 120 damage with Super, while our HK Danku was left at 150. It’s a relic from the damage reductions across the board that Dan got totally ignored on from SF4 to SSF4. If that’s the only damage we’re going to lose, I’d still consider us ahead of most of the pack. Where’ve you been, anyway?
Meaty counter-hit would make it a 3-frame link, and you get about 20 frames to react, which is comfortably within the scope of human limits. Negative Edge on PPP will help as well, if you have quick fingers.
Just think. The amount of damage you lose from a couple of HK.Dankus is far less than one frametrap consisting of cl.MP xx LK.Danku.
I don’t see getting reset on trade as a big deal either, it just means you have to be more on point with your anti-airs instead of tossing out Koryukens like you’re tossing out kids to cannibalistic hobos.
You can cr.MK after cl.MP, aswell. So not connecting with cr.MP isn’t a big deal. Spend an EX for Gorton’s Dankus if you’re max-max range, you’ll likely net more damage than the current s.MP xx HK.Danku.
While Dan’s damage hasn’t gotten uniformly better, it’s merely shuffled around for the greater good with this new bevy of mixup opportunities.
Website said +2-3 for CH for non-light attacks so I took the bottom value 2-frame link is still very tight to risk that much on (suppose it can be plinked… somehow). Negative edge doesn’t often help with links, when I get it on s.MP > KRK it makes the KRK too late. Landing the s.MP on the 2nd and last active frame would be hard and there’s no real way of telling whether you got it and you’re looking out for CH to boot.
Dan is not Ryu though Ryu’s Tatsu can combo with c.MK from max range, Dan’s Dankuu can’t combo with c.MK from point blank, it deserves to do more damage quite frankly.
Where’ve I been? Busy playing games (specifically a single game) Posting on forums was mainly because I was bored, now I have other stuff to do I need to grab some more of your games, I feel kinda guilty not putting out a video for my small followers in a while
So all I’m really seeing is a bunch of ways to link into EX Dankuu and a frame trap. No link into hard knock down, no meterless link into special (unless we’re lucky). It’s okay, I might even say it’s good but it’s not that good and certainly nothing to jump up and down about IMO. I’m more excited about the frame trap than the links, hopefully it’ll be more than +2 on block (currently 0).
The game will end (in updates) and they didn’t make his special taunts (including in air) to drain 1/8 or 1/12 of the opponent’s meter…
Shameful… (more than retarded nerfs, Akuma’s ultra 2, and Counter Ultras’ efficency combined)
I think that’s fine. Danku is still (mostly) safe on block and keeps him on the offense. And really, with the new links that that he has, ending with a hp krk seems like it’s gonna be the best damage off probably everything, space-pending. I mean, something as simple as cr.mp > cr.mp xx krk is gonna be nice damage, plus a knockdown.
Not only that, but at the end of the day Danku >> Tatsu. Danku is not as easy to combo and doesn’t go as far, but it can’t be ducked against the vast majority of the cast, it’s safe against the vast majority of the cast in the vast majority of situations, and it even keeps his offense going because of the threat of krk/backdash. Even if the damage drops to 120, it’s far more versatile/less situational than Tatsu. And the damage increase he’s getting in the plethora of general purpose links he’s getting in footsies will compensate that damage.
Dan will still have the same problems he had before regarding closing distance in certain matchups. But he’s gonna be more threatening footsie-wise when he’s actually in. And he’s got a freakin’ 3f normal now.
Ah but the tatsu has projectile invulnerability, give the Danku that and I’d agree that it is superior. Taken by itself the statement might be true but not when you look at the rest of the two characters’ tools. Shit. Make that change, even if just to on or two of the verstions of Danku, and Dan would be much more viable.
The Tatsumaki isn’t invincible to all projectiles, either. I can Gadoken Ryus who come at me with Tatsumakis. It goes over Sonic Booms because they’re more narrow, but Gadokens will stop them in their tracks.
And for Sugami again about the ‘tight link’ for the CH MP Ultra setup, I’m pretty sure links are much more forgiving when you’re linking a special move. Ryu’s f.HP > Shoryuken link is a 3 frame link, but I don’t think I’ve ever missed it, whereas a ‘normal’ 3 frame link I’m going to mess up from time to time. The same leniency that allows for easy reversals is at play when you input a special move after a normal. See also: Zangief’s post SPD medium Green Hand into second SPD mixup, where you don’t have to have really specific timing or anything with the second SPD.
I’ve done Cammy’s CH c.HP Ultra setup as well, and it was pretty easy too. I don’t see why Dan’s will be any different.
And I still have my game with Sabin that I want to get online!
Space and push-back (also reel animation) is my biggest concern, currently CH s.MP > c.MP/c.MK xx KRK doesn’t allow the KRK to connect so I’m not really holding my breath about KRK being able to still connect with these links
c.MP > c.MP I’m thinking was a typo, probably meant cl.MP > c.MP since c.MP is only +2 on hit and they didn’t mention any changes to the hit stun or recovery frames for it.
Actually it’s easier to link normals than specials because you can plink (most) normals, try to plink a special and you’ll get the EX instead Ryu’s f.HP just gives you forever and a day to confirm making it easy to compose yourself for the link and 3-framers are easy. If you’re too fast with the special then either it won’t come out or you’ll get negative edge a few frames late, pretty sure there’s no “reversal timing” outside of reversals.
In training or in a match? Something for the pros and people who are incredibly perceptive perhaps but for us regular Joes it just seems like combo video material to me.
Again, that’s situational. Every once in a while in a fireball war, you’ll see Ryu do a mid/long-range Tatsu over a projectile to close distance, and that is every once in a while in a fireball war. How many times will you see a Dan do a Danku at close/mid-range? Or Knee at close range? Lots
I really don’t want to look at all the tools of the characters, since I hate that in general in any game regarding balancing. It’s how you get arguments about how attribute X on character/race/class/gun A is better than similar attribute Y for character/race/class/gun B, so A is better than B, despite the fact that B has way more success than A. It’s more theory and number argument than actually playing the game and seeing what works and why.
All I’m just trying to say that Danku is still a very good move for Dan and a good move in general, damage nerf and all.
I meant that either the original source or street’s translation has the typo
c.MK is said to have reduced recovery, c.MP is said to have quicker start-up (5-frames). If they haven’t changed c.MP’s hit stun or recovery then c.MP > c.MP would be 3 frames too slow since it’s only +2 on hit.
cl.MP > c.MP would be a 4-frame link.
If c.MK has 2 frames cut off the recovery then c.MK > c.MP would be a 1-frame link.
Just to clarify, as for the c.MP -> c.MP, it was the dev blog who mentioned it, not the magazine. I doubt dev blog will have that huge kind of typo, but then they did have that type of error when explaining Gen’s changes in vanilla -> Super :lol:. I simply think they didn’t bother to explain c.MP changes other than the start-up, because the post would become too long.
I’d still rather stick with c.HP xx HK Dankuu.
2-frame link is still very tight to risk that much on (suppose it can be plinked… somehow). Negative edge doesn’t often help with links, when I get it on s.MP > KRK it makes the KRK too late. Landing the s.MP on the 2nd and last active frame would be hard and there’s no real way of telling whether you got it and you’re looking out for CH to boot.