Dallas, TX Destruction Tournament 8/30/2008 *start times has changed*

Tournaments & Events
142

this debate is small fries compared to the uproar that was the “Smash items debacle”.

of course they’d allow them, if only to cater to the general audience, and not just to the very elitist/selective SC community.

what you guys are doing is what the Smashers first did, and that’s neuter their game before any thorough testing was done (which is quite sad, imo).

of course, since ya’ll are absolutely FRIGHTENED by these bonus characters, then sure, ban them before even testing them. you guys are doing theory fighter until it’s actually been proven in a legitimate tournament setting that these bonus characters are broke-ass. in your gut, you already know they’re not broken.

perhaps our definitions of brokeness are different, since i come from a very lenient 2D mindset, but it’s only “broken” if something impedes the game (infinites, a character that shuts down the entired cast, etc.).

  • Marvel is an exception, due to the fact that they accepted the brokeness as a part of the game, which actually made the game deeper.

  • CvS2 is another piercing example; roll-canceling enabled low-tier to be somewhat playable against the top-tier (even though the top-tier got better).

  • 3s got a bit more deeper with the introduction of kara-throws, charge-partitioning, and other anomalies, due to game design. Hell, as much as I hate the game, it’s the SF game that has the largest turnout every year at EVO since…I don’t know, 2004 or 2005 (post-Justin/Daigo parry era)?

  • ST Akuma is a historically glaring example of a character completely shutting down an entire cast of characters due to one move: the air fireball. He has other things of note, but because of this one move, he has shut down the majority of the field of attack/control.

If you can find me a glaring example of how the bonus characters are broken compared to their originals or even the S-tier, then I will eat my words and buy you a combo meal, lol.

…and yes, we’re getting nowhere on this debate, since our principles are inherently different; we’ll agree to disagree.

P.S.
I play Amy, and not the Elf (and that’s just more due to the fact that she reminds me of that elf chick from Record of Lodoss War, lol). <3

P.P.S.
I also am guilty of playing an Amy CAS that looks like Sailor Moon (with magical wand, of course). :sweat:
In this manner, the models and range has changed for the better, I’m sure, but not to the extent of Raphael’s rapiers.

143

King’s right, and that is why I never ban a character unless they are PROVEN TO BE BROKEN!

KOF XI is a prime example of what I mean. DG banned the console specific characters for the sole reason that it would make the game not arcade perfect. Does it mean that the game played with those characters would make the game broken? No, but the assumption that the bonus characters are somehow evil would only bias tournament orgainizers into thinking that arcade perfect is the way to go is not only fair to those who enjoy playing with Mai or the other console specific characters.

But let’s be real here. ICE does raise a valid point in regards to the created characters. They can be edited to where the move set won’t fit the character’s “frame”(for lack of a better term). However, banning Vader and Yoda for the sole reason that they are not part of the “lore” or instantly deciding that they are broken without lack of testing is not a very good reason.

So why not do this, we allow Vader and Yoda to be in, but we give players a loss for editing them, since that is ICE’s biggest fear.

144

oh shit, you actually agreed with me on something; on that note…

here’s Dr. Deelite, aka Joe the Awesome (co-author of the Bradygames SCIV guide and also a really nice guy that i haven’t seen in millions of years):

Also, something to point out, in terms of “Breaking the Game” (in this case, SCIV):

If you’re going to ban the bonus characters, ban fucking Yoshimitsu, due to his game-breaking advantage against the three above characters! :wink:

LOL, or even more absurd, ban his 44bA! :lol:

145

LOL well, for one thing, Vader/Yoda hasn’t been DLC characters yet on either console, so we’d have to wait on if/when they do come. As of right now, they’re low- to low-mid tier at best. Either way, none of them are top-tier, and I’d use them just because they’re fun to use (force choke and saber throws ftw <3 ).

Only thing that should be banned, since it just creates a mess, is CAS’s. The bonus characters have nuances that should be respected, for better or for worse.

Hell, Cervantes with fat titties and a katana? Count me in! <3

SF2 had palette-swaps with Ryu and Ken…let’s ban Ken! :rolleyes:

The differences slowly became apparent during HF…if the SC community would just treat the originals and their counterparts as HF Ryu/Ken, then they wouldn’t really have anything to argue about in the first place concerning this matter.

They’re taking away FIVE possibly playable character outright, just due to the assumption that they’re broke (when they haven’t tested shit in competitive play).

oh well.

146

oh god, brawl and smash was mentioned in this thread:rolleyes:.

147

I’m curious… are you guys going to ban Algol? I mean he’s Necrid with projectiles. And we all know Necrid was one broken mofo.

148

Algol’s not really that bad of a character; he’s not broke-tier or anything, just really annoying at times.

149

How many people for marvel???

150

Before I start… the only reason I’m entertaining this is because I enjoy a good debate (and this also could be useful for future tournies)… and because it’s friday and I dont feel like working right now :slight_smile:

Anyways… going to what mr. deelite said

“That a range or hitbox might be different is no good reason; Talim and Astaroth have different ranges and hitboxes. Should we ban one or the other?”

Of course not… but again… those characters were designed w/ those ranges/hitboxes in mind… To say that this is an “assumption” is off in my opinion… To me it just seems an apparent fact… Now should we ban a talim-sized character w/ astaroth’s weapon? My assertion is yes.
**
"… stifle it for illogical reasons." **

I’m open to logical debate… and I always give concrete reasons for making decisions such as this… just because you dont agree doesn’t make it illogical.
**
“Does Shura/Scheherezade having more range than Cerv/Amy, for example, cause those characters to threaten the balance of the entire game? No, it just might make them…perhaps slightly better than a very similar character.”**

I disagree… I think it could threaten the balance of the game.

“Use whatever tools are at your disposal”

I agree… you have the same tools in the standard characters… use them.

“I also don’t see a hitbox mattering much in a game without weight class or stance issues.”

It does matter actually… Combos and such are affected in this game based on hitbox.

Either way… it ain’t changing for this tourney since officially they are banned by consensus of the SC community… this is an ongoing debate however and is subject to change in the future… I do appreciate the feedback and (whether or not I agree) definitely hear your points.

  • I.C.E.

P.S. Thai… no disrespect to your boy… but as you know (or should)… being a co-author on a strategy guide for a game does not give you automatic credibility for talking about what really matters in that game.

151

again, my points are just echoed from the SRK community that’s now just getting into SC. I myself played SCII to some extent, and tried SCIII (and found it to be blah/crap); I’m just barely getting back into this series.

of course, you’re respecting your established community, and i recognize that effort.

152

FYI im winning SC4 unless someone obviously cheats.

153

6 more days…CANT WAIT!

154

Ugh, sorry but it’s looking worse and worse for me to show up to this tournament.

However, it seems like I may have to take a rain check on this event and try to hit up the next one.
Damnitt, sorry =(

155

sad face.

156

I might bring a TV, PS2, and DC if it’s needed. Just let me know. :smiley:

157

yes bring them.

158

This will be good, can’t wait.

159

john: are you going to be getting footage from this event?

160

will try to get top 8 if we can.

161

Nigga’s got to gets PAID!