No more racist than scholarships having lower academic requirements for people of certain races, or specifically only being offered to those of a certain race.
No more racist than students receiving bonus points on standardized tests used for college acceptance based on race.
No more racist than magnet schools getting government incentives to bus in kids of other races.
No more racist than government funded colleges expressly stating that ‘students of color especially encouraged to apply’.
Schools basically admiring that “We aren’t even going to fucking try”
http://www.alternet.org/story/15223/whites_swim_in_racial_preference
Keep pretending the playing field was ever even at some point.
[media=youtube]Q3IyGFlw_9w[/media]
Well this is the wrong approach, ideally, History isn’t about memorizing dates, its just formated that way to teach kids how to do busy work while an authority figure jacks off.
Pick up a book.
Fucking read it.
Get good grades.
Go get employed.
Don’t fucking tell me that’s not going to work because you’re poor or black.
Yet, most people below the poverty level in this country are white. What happens to them when they try and make themselves better? Do you just say “We realize you’re just as poor as other people, but sorry, your skin isn’t dark enough.”? What kind of sentiment does that create?
If we’re going to have programs and scholarships in place to help empower people, shouldn’t it be based on need and not race? Race is not synonymous with need.
At it’s core, racism is about treating someone differently based merely upon the prospect of their race. It devalues who we are as people. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, people should not be judged by the color of their skin but the merit of their character. I personally believe in the ethical imperative of that statement.
And while past racism is deplorable, is it fair to hold modern people responsible for events that happened before they were even born? The past is gone, there is nothing we can do to ever change it. But we can affect the present. And I personally do not believe that trading one sense of injustice with another is right.
Racism is wrong, and it was always wrong. But trying to correct injustice with more injustice is just going to perpetuate the idea that we should be separated on racial lines. If we want to move on past racism, we need to stop being racist.
On a side note, the playing field will never be equal. People will always be stronger, faster, smarter, etc. than others. That’s nature. This is about giving everyone the same opportunities. And while yes, some people might have to work harder than others given their specific situation, the opportunities they have available should remain the same.
In addition, each person approaches obstacles in a completely unique way. Can you objectively say that a person in a poor household with a supportive family is worse off than a rich person who lives in an abusive family? My point is, you cannot simply point at someone living in a ghetto and assume their life sucks. You cannot point at someone living in a mansion and assume their life is great.
As it’s taught it’s mostly (all) trivia. I mean history as some sort of understanding, or at least attempt to understand, how events fit together and why they happen when they do. Why did the civil war start in 1861? Why not 1820? Could it have waited until 1920? Knowing history helps to understand the world around you much better, no matter what your occupation. I’m interested in math and it’s certainly interesting to me that Gauss didn’t publish his results on non-Euclidean geometry because he didn’t want to deal with the “clamor of the Boeotians” in his Kantian Germany. Or knowing that Columbus used an incorrect estimate of the size of the Earth to convince his financers that his ships could make it to India. (They weren’t reluctant because they though the Earth was flat as so many people still believe; they were reluctant because as far as they knew that he was almost certainly sailing to his death.) Even the invention of accurate clocks capable of keeping time on long sea voyages was historically significant.
Whether it’s really the most important is just my opinion, but I don’t think it’s most important if you reduce it to trivia or only consider its monetary benefits.
You can’t just say “let’s forget what happened in the past and start over” when you’re still holding onto and enjoying the spoils of war, so yes putting things in place so non-whites can “catch up” is justified.
I say this as someone who lives on a Cherokee Reservation.
I detest what happened to my ancestors, but the people who did those things are long gone. I do not feel that the people that are descended from those who committed those atrocities should be held responsible. I would hope that lessons could be learned from those past actions so that they are not repeated upon anyone else in the future.
Imagine if your grandfather punched another guy in the face. Imagine if this person was hurt so badly he had to quit his job and it greatly impacted the financial situation of his whole family. Years later, should you be forced to compensate that family? They might argue that your family had a distinct advantage over theirs and you have to let them catch up.
But you never asked to be born into your family to inherit this responsibility. You never made a choice that led to your family harming their family. Justice only really works when we hold people accountable for their choices. When we hold people accountable for things beyond their control, I feel that is wrong.
A lot of those schools don’t have enough textbooks or supplies for all their students.
Look, all of these problems are two-fold. You have these hair-brained ineffectual schemes by the government and also the culture of poverty you are dealing with. Local governments will always look to cut from education budgets first because “forget those poor kids.” This methodology is as old as the hills.
We’re all just focused on the minority kids because they’re mainly in cities where the media has more access to them. Nobody wants to invest in the long-term because let’s face it: it will take more than a generation to have any kind of real progress on this front.
yeah a lot of programs should be based on poverty level and not race. however, even looking at a white person vs black person of same income, the white guy still receives white privilege. easiest example black guys are just more likely to be pulled over/harassed and molested by the police than white people. they’re more likely to be incarcerated for something as trivial as doing drugs, whereas the white person is more likely to get away with it. so saying that we shouldn’t be angry at past racism is trying to imply that white privilege doesn’t exist today, which it obviously still does.
TLDR: moar pix plz
C’mon Tryone!
[media=youtube]0szLXe3xgEU[/media]
Get it together!
You say this like it still doesn’t exist or the actions of the past have had no consequence on what’s going on today. This isn’t reparations, white people aren’t losing rights or being used as stepping stones to advance minorities, this is an accelerate program for those who were boned in the past, programs that still don’t come close to the programs that only whites had access to what 50 years ago or more?
You’re like saying they got everything they want out of some programs and now that there’s things in place so everyone can try to get to the same point faster, get rid of those. It’s like a kid being upset someone else will have the same toys as him when they go on sale.
Nor is Sex/Gender.
@Fishjie: I was going to get into a lengthy argument with her about how history doesn’t occur in a vacuum and that events even from just the very recent past still have an effect today(such as with wealth distribution and whatnot). But then I remember who I’d be talking to and said forget it.
To you personally though I’m against reparations as a viable pursuit, it’s not gonna happen, and even if it did happen it could be in a form that is completely disastrous as Native Americans found out(Which is where she could’ve actually made a decent argument on instead of WAH WAH ITS UNFAIR)
Also, on a side note, the main beneficiaries of affirmative action by far are white women. So yes that is indeed unfair and I’m totally against AA. : D
How? Shit happens, I accept that. I specifically said I hope people learn from it so the future can be better. I accept that it is in the past and there is nothing we can do to change it. Acceptance doesn’t mean you pretend something doesn’t exist or matter, it means you come to terms with it in a manner that doesn’t inhibit you. On a greater level, I hope that we as humanity and society as a whole can learn from a past mistake in a manner that makes things better for everyone.
I would argue they are. There are only so many slots for a given job or college. Whenever someone loses out to someone else on the basis of race that is wrong. You’re seeking to correct past racism with present racism.
But not everyone can benefit from these new programs, only certain people. That’s not equality of opportunity. The only difference in these programs is that they now favor a different set of races than they used to. If racism was wrong in the past, how can it be right today?
At some point people just need to shut the fuck up and roll with it. So your ancestors got screwed, sorry about that. Shit happens, welcome to the human race. Instead of wanting handouts that come at the expense of other people just roll with it. Stop thinking of yourself as a victim and concentrate on your potential to overcome and flourish.
I think more people should be thankful that their particular group was eventually liberated or given rights rather than concentrating on what they feel they’re entitled to. Use your liberty to do something other than sit around and bitch.
I’m with matriarch on this one, especially this part:
I agree, stop being fucking pussies.
those poor dumb minorities, they just can’t perform at our level. we’ll have to lower the standards so they don’t get too frustrated.
it boggles my mind that people are okay with this.
the playing field is not level if you are non white. this is a direct consequence of shit in the past. so non whites, ESPECIALLY native americans, already start off at a disadvantage. shit like affirmative action tries to level that playing field. pretty straight forward.
Her argument is don’t bother trying to help, let the problem continue.