“You said yourself that your hoping to land a combo with lvl3 for a comeback, now where in the SF handbook does it say that your supposed to have less life by being aggressive? Again you’ve just had to admit my point, there’s really no way around it.”
I used a poor choice of wording, I apologise. What I mean is that if you are getting hit more (which is what is most likely to happen) then you’ll have more meter to use which is more beneficial to a rushdown player than a turtle.
"Remember success in K, is in total damage, not nessecarily super. Supers are the simplest, but most characters can also do this with 2 throws and a medium strength attack (assuming they’ve landed 0 damage since their meter was empty). I am suprised that so many people feel it’s impossible or even impractical to land 3 moves in 15 or so seconds, especially when you admit that most opponents will fear the meter and practically let you chase them.
You can look at any decent match and find aggressors that aren’t getting hit, aren’t jumping in and getting DPed for no reason, and basically wouldn’t benefit from being in K-Groove. Yet ppl will still make blanket statements about what you should and shouldn’t do."
OK, first of all, can we stop using the jump in VS non active player as an example? That’s not being aggressive, that’s just being a moron 
What I don’t think is being conveyed here is that the point of aggressiveness leading to a higher chance to get hit is just based on odds. Odds are just guesses at what happens during certain situations, I’m not saying that being aggressive WILL get you hit more often, I’m just saying that the LIKELYHOOD is that you’ll be hit more simply because while attacking you cannot be in a state of defense, you can’t block while doing a d.forward, I’ve already explained the d.forward situation.
Aggressive players have a higher likelyhood of being hit than turtle players, simply because they are less often in states of defense than turtles. We talk odds here because when you talk about SF, unless you site specific situations all you can talk about is odds and likelyhoods because it’s all theory anyway. Nothing is set in stone in SF, that’s what makes it good.
That being said though, you’ve gotta consider that even a player the caliber of Ohnuki (who at the time had what was considered to be the best rushdown around) got hit plenty during Evolution
“He is trying to make a leap from that point to actual hits, since his point as you state it doesn’t affect the K groove discussion. So the issue is whether the ‘possibility of getting hit’ and ‘getting hit’ are close enough to be counted the same way. Common sense says that this is impossible, if it were true, rushdown would defeat itself: the better you rush down, the more you get hit? if you are the best rushdown player, it results in you getting perfected i guess.”
I think his point is that because you’ll most likely be hit more often and have more meter while rushing, that is a better advantage you have in K over simply turtling, although I do agree with a lot of what you’ve said in this paragraph
“So i get it, we just ignore JD cause you said it doesn’t help you 90% of the time. Meanwhile, i go find out that you can s.jab(sagat) XX super after JD’ing a c.fierce, s.strong(chun) a 1 hit s.foward, 2 hit anything, etc… Now the thing is i could be wrong, but how the hell do i know, i’m the only person i know trying it! And if i’m talking about that, wtf is everyone else talking about then?? Furthermore what are these left field conclusions about rushdown and turtling and shit based on, whether vega can be used in K groove etc… if noone can even answer basic JD questions properly.”
Where did I say that JD doesn’t help you 90% of the time? I said that in 90% of cases (which I should say is probably too high a percentage considering I haven’t tested it) it doesn’t give you the “free” damage which you crave. That doesn’t mean that there’s no point to it, what it means is that IMO in a lot of cases a JD should not be considered something that leads to immediate reward (like a parry).
For example, take the standard jump in (which is ironic considering I said we should drop this example like 2 seconds ago :)). Say you play Rock in K-Groove, Rock has a perfectly fine AA in s.RH, yet you see a lot of people merely wait around for the jump in and JD it. I don’t see a point to doing that, AFAIK JDing a jump in doesn’t give you enough advantage to get free damage when they land, so all you get is something like a 50/50 mixup when they hit ground. Worse still is the opponent isn’t forced to defend against the 50/50, they get the same opportunity, throw or hit. Either it’s a victory to the char with the higher priority hit, a throw break, or a free hit because the other person went to throw. I’d rather take the easier and better (at least vs 4 of 6 grooves) and just AA them to begin with, it’s almost free damage for me and a match reset at a range which doesn’t particular benefit either player.
Heaps of JDs that happen end up in that situation, basically just drawing you closer to the opponent to get that 50/50, in some cases that’s better than what you would have had before so it’s worth doing. In some others, that space isn’t such a bad thing (anyone wanna be closer to Gief or Raiden in one of those 50/50s?). What you are attempting to do in the other thread is great, any real information on what a JD allows you to do is great, I’ll even go so far as to say that attempting to talk about the ideology of a groove isn’t really all that helpful, so what if a lot of people think a groove is better at one thing than another, if it’s not successful for you it doesn’t help.
What I do think though is that I like to hear what serious players think about things? I like to hear how some people approach a groove and how it differs from mine, of course you get the talk from the random scrub fool and that’s shitty and annoying to have to look through, but seeing how some people approach things differently might make you rethink your approach, and be better in the end. Arguments like this and calling it totally pointless detract from this kind of conversation and don’t help anyone. Heck, I’d like to hear how you approach the groove itself, I know you’re trying to work out a lot of punishment options, but just your general bead on it would be good to hear.
cya
d.s
