I’m not in anyway saying that throw set-ups are more important than other set-ups. I was just saying there is no reason to disregard it. Someone said we were talking about two different things. I think he is right. Although, I agree with your last two posts. It was your first post that confused me. Sorry.
Runnin’ and Dashin’
Morrigan has a HUGE as hell hop. Damn those jet boosters. But I prefer to have her [has a learning Morrigan player] in run. Because I’m thinking, if you want to use dash to avoid sweeps… arn’t small jumps more effective? Even though C A don’t have small jumps… P-groove does [out of the dashing grooves] and I sometimes find it easier to actually nail someone with a small jump as opposed to dashing and risking getting nailed. But then again I am more accustomed to rushing than playing mind games with dashing.
I started the game with P-groove [I was a SFIII buff] but I had to give that up because I kept on getting over-runned by quick characters like Vega, Cammy, Chun li etc. I switched to K-groove because it’s somewhat like P-groove [if you JD a jumpin, you get a free command/super throw for free] but I just like how fast you get the meter. I normally don’t use my rage meter for supers but more often, to damage my opponents with command throws and normals. If I see a opporunity for a super… then bam! There goes a lvl 3 up your ass. [from what I know… K-groove has the strongest supers]
Right now, I already have some realization on what type of team I want. So far I have Rock and Yamakazi in K-groove. But I am still debating on who the third character can be. I been trying out Chang [reason: high stamina, funny character, suprise tactics with Choi and the Spinning Ball] and Morrigan [reasons: a shoto with a good command grab… and IMO better supers. Soul fist = can be use on the ground and air. Cardinal Blade = ghetto shinryuken. Darkness Illusion = good and quick level 3… and can be used in the air!]
I agree with you guys that S groove sucks. Well kinda… well yeah it does suck. Sure you have dodge which is better than a roll [invincibility wise… dodges are COMPLETLY invincible while rolls are not invincible the whole time.] but your just standing there. So what if avoiding the hits? Your not doing any sort of damage. Plus I think that the power boost they get when Desperation mode is pretty much a waste. If you so little life left… won’t you be more cautious as opposed to throwing lvl 1 supers all day? Also charging your meter gives you more problems.
With other grooves… you get meter when you dish out and recieve damage [except for K… which you only get meter for JD, counters, and getting hit]… but S-groove is crappy when it comes to getting meter. And I disagree about what you people say about N-groove. Sure it might not be unique like the other grooves, it’s the only one with run and roll. RC rushing galore! Erhm yeah…
I think grooves that are harder to master are A and P groove. To do any damage in A groove… you need to know how to juggle and crap. And P-groove… well if you suck at parrying then you might as well pick something else since that’s all you got in P-groove.
There is one thing I need to ask… I have been hearing that Morrigan has effective run tactics… but when I use her… I tend to get nailed by a DP or something. Anyone can help me with?
Oh… yeah… ratios… is it better to have a 3 person team or a 2 person team? [2,2 or 1,3]
tanion:
i remember reading a while back that someone worked out that it’s best to have a 3 person team.
also, having a 3 person team makes it harder for the opponenet to pick a counter team.
i dunno if morrigan has better supers but u might give ryu a try in K…after all, a large part of playing K groove is what you do before you unleash your rage super.
like how you keep doing the motion and make Yamazaki bounce up and down until they walk into your super?
yeah but i was just playin around. it looks funnier when yama bobs up and down and the other guy still jumps. sorry back to K groove.
The thing i’ve noticed about CVS2 more then any other game, is the variety of ways to play it. For example, I play a very strategically based team, Sakura, Guile, Ryu(R2). I’ve been playing the game for over a year now, and this team compliments my wants. I’m at the position now where links are the only thing worth mastering. Links make CVS2 worthwhile, the combo’s can be endless.
Yet…if I pick this team, most of the time i’m trying to link various combo’s and strings off of cross-up’s, rushdown strats, counters, roll’s etc. However…the ability for someone to simply pick a N-groove team of Blanka, Bison, and Sagat is mind-boggling to me.
I find it appaling that some of the characters are this simple to pick up and use. A c.FP sagat can out-prioritize most weaks or light moves, which consequently kills many link or chain set-up’s.
I’m not whining, i’m just stating the different levels of which the game can be played at, and what you need to do to win. I suppose that can be in any game though, which can be frustrating when strategy is trying to be implied. I’m sure any of the higher level caliber players here can tell you that.
And I don’t find any one groove dominating. If you’ve seen the new SAI REC combo vid, S-Groove should be FEARED. I personally like C-groove because you don’t need to activate for your level 3, so there’s no limited time on using it. Plus, level 2 cancelling can be VERY effective, as can the air block.
A Groove is a good, but nothing’s truly guaranteed in it.
The SNK grooves are simply out-matched because they have no roll. It doesn’t matter in my opinion how skilled you are with rush-down properties, if someone picks a dominating character such as Sagat or Blanka, and has a roll, the odds are stacked against you.
CVS2 is both balanced yet un-balanced. I love the link system, yet the priority grid is off the scale sometimes…
Your too wrong MuyThai…S and K groove have advantages of their own over the roll grooves…Sometimes rolling can cost you your ass take it from the roll king…lol…It all comes down to who’s on the controls…I can play a “good” N C or A player who uses roll good…and I could you S dodge and win…dont think so…keep looking at the results page and you will see…I mean dont get me wrong roll is too good…C is my other groove and the groove I used at EvL…So it just comes down to your over all knowledge of the game…
-B:cool:not much rolling
watching alot of high level players, i dont see them rolling very much. mostly roll canceling. the most important thing is just having the roll makes it a mobility threat that your opponent has to be aware of. Otherwise its not particularly useful in and of itself
Hey doesn’t N have a roll? But yeah, S has a “dodge” but it’s not as useful as a roll, and K does not need a roll. K does perfectly fine without a roll. Watching Ino play Kgroove again (on the evl2k2 dvds) made me realize how a good kgroove can get two lvl3 supers per round scary.
I didn’t read the whole thread so if someone else mentioned some of this stuff, then sorry.
- On grooves: Ino mentioned that in Japan A-groove is considered the strongest, followed by K and C, then P, then N & S (not sure on the N & S) order. Of course this assumes a wide use of roll cancelling.
With no roll cancelling, N groove is still very much up there.
N groove was considered weak because it doesn’t really have a good defense against roll cancelling besides roll cancelling back.
C groove has air block, so you can jump straight up and block whatever they do, they can roll cancel back, and have instant level 2/3 super.
K has just defend. Not as simple to execute as C groove’s air block, but better than N groove’s nothing. Plus you get life, and rage which does more guard-meter damage.
A can custom combo through things.
P can parry duh.
S & N get the shorter end of the stick.
But for sagat, blanka, and cammy (oftentimes in the same team =) ) the choice of groove doesn’t really matter. All three do well in almost all the grooves: C, K, A, N or P. Personal preference at that point.
Hi,people!
I play CVS 2 for Dreamcast only(There is no arcade CVS2 in our town:().Here are my opinions for the game,I hope it help you:
The best Grooves:C,N - forget about the others!
The top tiers:Sagat(priority,Damage,Crazy links),Blanka(great range,Damage,Super-Direct lightning,good jump and air normals),Chun-Li(speed,good pokes,Great Supers,priority in the air),Vega(Balrog)(speed,range,air king),Camy(speed,good in the air,good range)…
If you ask me the dodge is more useful then the roll…it’s alot less vulnerable for one. Maybe you can’t move around your opponent so easily, but at least its harder to get thrown (unless they bait it, which they can do to rolling to, and a bit easier).
But you’re missing the point entirely about Rolls…
Rolls move forward. And that’s all it comes down to. You can Dodge to your heart’s content, but how are you gonna sneak in on a defensive Sagat, Blanka, or Hibiki? Dodge won’t help you at all because it doesn’t advance you literally and figuratively.
A good smart Roll can lead to 60% damage. A good smart Dodge can lead to 50% damage, too, but the rarity at which that occurs is soooo much higher than a Roll into damage.
S-Groove’s biggest weakness is that it has no alternate means of approach. C, A, and N Groove can Roll to get it. P and K can use their safer Jumps to get in (combined with Parry and Just Defend). S-Groove cannot approach. You can Run forward and Dodge, but again, that doesn’t get you very far.
They should have done something like this: let you cancel a Dodge into ANY Normal move you want aafter the short Dodge start-up time, but with no invincibility. Then, you should be able to cancel a Dodge like you can nowadays, but with a brief frame or two of invinbibility (by pressing Fierce + Roundhosue or Strong + Forward). But then that would turn S-Groove into the Turtler’s dream.
It’s really hard to find a proper balance for S-Groove. It’s gonna either be too good or not good enough, if you keep tweaking the Dodge. If you gave S-Groove one more feature (like Air Blocking), it may have been a lot better and still balanced.
- James
James: I always thought it was unsafe to roll. I remember back in CvS1 days when nobody rolled, ever. I remember seeing something about rolls in the CvS2 section here, but I cant seem to find it anymore. (The “Game Data” section that used to be up) Every time I use to roll in CvS1, I always seemed to get hit at the end of the roll. So I guess I just thought that it was the same for CvS2 also. I dont really roll at all just from habit from CvS1, but when others roll I try to attack at the end of the roll, which usually happens. I understand that if timed right, they can be very useful, but I just dont see the opportunities very much during game play though, IMO (Unless you are dodging a fireball or whatever).
-monkey
Not all rolls are the same. Some are godly like iori’s and some just plain suck like cammys. You don’t have to roll past a super or Fb for it to be useful. You can predict if someone’s going to fierce/rh and roll past it for a combo.
Yes, it’s true… most Rolls can be punished. And most Rolls wil be punished. But the think about Rolls is that if I have a full meter and somehow I manage to Roll past one little thing… just ONE little thing, I get 50-75% damage right there. If I Roll into Super or Roll through a move you threw out that has too much delay, peace out. It’s too much reward for one successful Roll. Whereas with Dodging, if you Dodge Eagle’s Stand Fierce, you don’t get much out of that. So Rolls are too much of an X-factor. They also get you out of Cross-ups, get you out of Meaty Attacks, help you avoid Wake-ups… too good. Dodges aren’t quite as useful.
Rolls aren’t abusable, not by any means. But they can still be used here and there, and as Alphastorm pointed out, some characters like Iori (although I would argue that no one else comes close to being as evil with Rolls as Iori) are just waaaaay too good with Rolls.
- James
RE: James Chen’s roll super guide
Where’s Dr. B when you need him? Triple roll into super vs. Japanese on EVL dvd ----> too good… that’s all I have to say.
A-groove is the best indefinetly. Execution has to be perfect though.