If you haven’t heard, it is rumored and speculated that there will be another update coming to the SF4 series. We can speculate what changes what will happen If this update does come about, it is probable that Viper will receive some nerfs. Since other character sub forums are starting this trend, I guess we can do the same since there is nothing really going on here. So we can discuss some possible changes she will receive, or talk about what we would like to see for the lulz.
I think she will possibly receive some more damage and stun nerfs like in the last version, and I wouldn’t be surprised if her frame advantage on BKs were nerfed like vanilla to super.
For my dumb changes:
Allow her to feint Bks, make Ex Seismo hit the complete screen, allow feints to build meter, and give her the optic blast from Marvel that can nullify other character’s projectiles. Capcom, make it happen. xD
I feel they’re gonna leave her, that’s if a new version ever comes out. (I’m not banking on it.) There’s not much you can do to Viper to appease those who want her nerfed, least not without changing the character drastically. At the same time, any buffs could send her up.
agree w/ you guys not much can really be done to her i feel
(imo) assuming there even is 2013 update, realistically i think:
u1 damage will not be decreased for the first time, maybe even u2 damage increase by 30 or 40 damage.
a couple changes to her FA on normals. something like:
f+HK/cl.HK to be buffed by 2 frames leaving it +0/+5, maybe a bigger/lower hitbox if we are very lucky on the move so second hit doesn’t whiff at poking range vs. crouchers
potential for overhead to be nerfed by 1f leaving it -3/+0 but not v. likely
mp.tk damage decrease by 10, leaving it same as lp.tk @ 100. potential if this happened for lp.tk to also lose 10 damage but either way lp.tk to then gain some extra stun points on hit (otherwise all TKs unchanged)
cr.mk hitbox to be unchanged
burn kicks to be unchanged
seismos unchanged
super unchanged
all feints unchanged
whatever happens viper to end up top 5 or just outside.
ALTERNATIVELY… she gets the hammer baddddddddddd, we all cry but continue to play her anyway, viper forums become more active and all fraudulent vipers will return to their mains.
just like everyone else and their char’s, i can only hope for the sake of my wrists viper doesn’t become 2nd half of the cast w/ some ridiculous ass changes
At the most, I see BKs getting another nerf and Seismos getting reduced in damage, both direct and chip. Doesn’t matter really, unless others get drastic buffs and Viper and the rest of the top tiers gets merked hard, I don’t think anything’s going to change much and people’ll still have issues. Viper’ll probably keep her tier position or be the #1.
Honestly, there’s only so much nerfing/buffing Capcom can dish out. IMO, I think the overall mechanics are more responsible for the current state of the game, competition-wise. (not that I particularly care, I just play the game as it is.)
My nightmare nerfs would be if they reduced the damage and stun on her cr. and st. hps, which would make FFF even less damaging. I just hope if Capcom does do a rebalancing of the game, they leave the top tiers alone and give buffs to the characters that need them.
Well yeah Viper and Seth are good examples of poor character/game design. Regardless of the numbers behind Seth’s moves, the fact that you give him everything makes him strong. Hence why Seth can be nerfed in every single version of the game and only now do we consider him a dominant top tier. With Viper, you can keep lowering damage here and there but she will still be so strong if she can keep you guessing. So Viper is really gonna be just fine unless they go absolutely crazy with nerfs to the point where she simply cannot compete even when she plays very well.
Viper is fine the way she is, if anything she needs some slight buffs, certainly not nerfs. Viper top tier was 2011, get a grip on reality people. On top level play, Viper has been figured out pretty much. Viper doesnt win a major anymore already. Many chars have moves avoiding her bk mixups by going under, eliminating any guessing and her footsies and defensive options are ass. She is nowhere near the powerhouses Akuma and Cammy. Plus she needs ridiculous execution on the highest level, which really cant be said of top tier chars. Even Krone and Latif lose tournament games regularly cus of execution errors (25th anniversary for example - Krone messes up one Seismo Chain against Momochi and one Hp.TK Trade - Dash - Ultra and its Game Over). People thinking Viper is still top tier just means they play people who dont have a lot of experience against her.
What would you give her? As a Viper player, I think she has a good amount of options and I’m pretty content with the way she is now.
I kinda find it funny that only recently, players have begun to frequently use normals to avoid BKs when various players and I’ve been telling people to do that since long ago instead of getting nailed(as well as various other things.)
I think she is totally fine. Losing a game because of player error (especially execution errors) is not a valid reason for a buff. And she does have the highest execution in the game, but everyone seems to think it’s very rare for a top tier character to take a lot of effort to play well. We have the Akuma forum bitching that Akuma is hard to play at a high level, Seth is hard to play at a high level, and the truth is the majority of characters are hard to play at a high level.
And that’s a moot point anyway, just because something is difficult doesn’t mean it isn’t strong/is underpowered.
na i dont think its comparable. How often do you see infiltration or poongko do execution errors? rarely. How often do you see latif or krone do execution errors? pretty much 80% of all matches. I dont say Akuma or Seth is easy to play or something, but strictly speaking of execution its easy as fuck compared to viper.
That said I think she needs -1 Frame startup on cr.LK and cl.LK (down to 4 from 5) and slightly faster recovery on cr.LK (so that she is at least -2 and not -3 on block - so a reversal srk will not hit you on a blocked cr.LK no matter what). Also chaining two cl.LK or cr.LK into cl.LK should result in a true blockstring and not be shoryu mashable. Maybe even reduce Fierce TK Startup to 6 or even 5 frames, but maybe that would make her too strong. The changes to her LKs are needed though to give her somewhat viable footsies imo. You cant just feint everything and never get a combo. To balance it out I would be fine with lowering the dmg on seismos by like 10, this would make her a more balanced character and overall more viable without making her op imo.
Knowing Capcom, they are probably going to make her U2 do some insane amount of damage but no one will ever use it. Optic blast and BK feint would be rad but it won’t happen.
Yeah it was kinda funny doing her trials in Super and seeing Capcom shamelessly plug her U2 in a lot of them lol
Wouldn’t be surprised if there was a U2 buff in exchange for her other stuff getting nerfed.
I’m pretty fine with the way she is. It makes sense that they could nerf her frames for BK’s on block but I mean what’s the point if characters can duck under it and punish like diehilde said? She’s been figured out for the most part, but what I like about her the most is to be able to play her no matter what mood you’re in, and the creativity just goes nuts. That said, if there are some minor dmg or stun nerfs, whatever. As long as we get that vortex.
Come to think of it I’d like capcom to give her better defensive options lol but honestly I don’t think she needs anything.
Latif said in that excellent 100 match youtube vid that the only thing he cares about is fixing her cr. MK, because [and i agree] it just looks like it goes through the opponents leg. So maybe a slight cr. MK hitbox adjustment?
Man, I used to loathe viper, and while I still feel she’s real strong… she’s not nearly as bullshit in my eyes as Cammy. I can respect that at least good viper play requires a decent amount of thought and high execution, not complete auto-pilot BS.
I honestly think if they nerfed Cammy, Akuma and maybe Seth, leave viper and a few others untouched and buff the rest then it’ll be fine. Of course I wouldn’t cry if she got nerfed since I don’t play her, but I don’t think it’s really necessary as long as they do the aforementioned balance process.
cr.lk 4f startup, -2 on block<br>far hk causes ground bounce on counter-hit (aerial opponents) that can combo into HP TK (no juggle possible afterwards)<br>towards hk can cancel into super like fei long’s<br>far mp special cancellable<br>less recovery on empty super jump (make it same as when you press a button in the air)<br>