Crimson Viper changes for 2013?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
21

If the rest of the cast are getting buffed appropriately than I don’t see any reason why Viper shouldn’t get a few buffs in order to keep her relevant with the rest of the cast. Most Viper players are content with her, as her play style hasn’t been changed to date but she could use a few minor improvements.

-c.Foward hitbox extended to hit as they way it appears - This is a buff that every Viper player back in the day wanted and it’s still a valid buff that can improve her footsies. I understand this would be one hell of a long range poke but you have to realize that Jab or Strong TK would whiff on a max ranged c.Forward. Hell, it already whiffs on spacing as is so a buff like this will still encourage an understanding of footsies.

-far s.RH anti-air cause a hard knockdown - The move is an extremely situational anti-air and has bad recovery so the least it can do is cause a hard knockdown when used correctly. Preferably, so we can start our oki game with a safe jump or something.

-Increased frame advantage off of TK feints from normals - I’m not sure what the frame (dis)advantage is with TK feint cancels off of normals but I would like to see these slightly buffed so that characters with 3f normals can’t just mash their way out of feint cancel pressure.

Interesting buffs but potentially broken:

-Allow Burn Kicks to be feinted - Probably really broken depending on how this is implemented but this would add an interesting layer to her mix ups and make her fun to play again because the game is starting to get stagnant.

Feinting using the kick buttons might be good & bad because double tapping BK’s would trigger the feint giving some interesting results but would also make it annoying for people who double tap BK’s for execution consistency. Feinting BK’s with punches would create interesting execution techniques for mix ups utilizing the feint. Recovery of a feinted BK is proportional to the height at which she performs the BK so a SJ BK would be trip guard punishable if she feinted at max height.

Feinting with TK’s had different recovery times based on which strength of TK was used; however, with BK’s I would like to see the strength of button used for the feint to manipulate things like whether Viper retains the momentum of the BK trajectory.

22

  1. Faster Focus Attack please. Viper’s focus has to be one of the worst in the entire game.

  2. Ultra 2 - Has to be blocked standing and needs a cross up hitbox to make it into a viable Ultra. Able to execute U2 at any point in during jump trajectory (might be broken?). Reduce damage of Ultra as a trade-off if any of the requested attributes are added.

  3. Either fix crouching medium kick’s hit box or make her sweep faster.

  4. Ex Thunder Knuckle is pretty useless. Rework this move and give her a low, mid and high ex thunder knuckle depending on which two buttons are pressed.

5 Neutral jump kicks (namely hard kick) aimed at a crouching opponent are easily avoided by pressing sweep or crouching medium with too many characters (was this intentional to begin with?). Hitbox needs to be reworked on hard kick so this can’t happen. At least one neutral jump attack should be threatening on the way down.

23

Alright guys so if you havent heard there are going to be threads on capcom unity every week for the next few weeks cover specific characters to take suggestions from the community. As you all know viper has gotten slightly weaker every game, and I think its time for a buff. If we work together on this we can maybe get something we actually want.

I posted about this earlier but I think its a bit more serious now so my serious changes are as follow

one or all(LOL) of these would be great

-Better Focus - its really the worst in the game

-Longer l.forward

-faster sweep, or make it special cancelable (LOL)

-Reduce HP.tk from 9 frames to 5-6. Seriously its too easy to jump on viper randomly.

-if not the previous then maybe speed up c.HP by a frame and extend its hitbox upward a bit so it can AA those weird angles vip has issues with

-Cr. Short needs to be reduced to 4f and -2 on block as someone mentioned earlier.

I just think that anything that can make viper better at footsies and better and AA would allow her to rely less on BKs and more on a ground game. I was thinking that she could use some change that would help her control horizontal space better, when you take away vipers BK game its too easy to jump and walk her into the corner. Id like to be able to just stay solid and rely on my normals without always being too slow.

24

I think she needs better block strings and a buff on the hp tk to make it faster. Oh and make sure that Neutral Jump hk always faces the correct direction ( It’s frustrating getting punished for game mechanics like this). I really don’t care about her focus to much because I don’t use it and even if they made it faster the range would still be bad. I say instead of focus buffs give her a better backdash.

25

It’s already at 7.

Viper needs the following changes:
BK feint.
BK hitting OH.
Post-hit TK feints.
Projectile-invincible Ex TK.
Chainable normals.
Eye lasers.
OTG U1.
Invincible, horizontal-moving U2.
Specials that can be canceled into EX moves and Ultra.

Hmm.

26

IDK why I thought it was 9 LOL but 7 is still slow >_>

I agree with everything you said lmao

27

VIper should get a buff to her c.MK hitbox. I mean…look at this…

What the hell is that? It should be called c.MKankle. Latif has even said that he would want this change.

Aside from that, there aren’t any changes that are necessary. Any other changes to her would change her as a character. She has already had her frame advantage taken away when SSF4 was released. Her damage was reduced when AE2012 was released. In AE, all she got was a better hitbox on her U2 (lol). To be honest, I have not heard that many complaints about Viper, save for Dieminion (lolguileplayers). From what I have seen, it looks like Cammy and Akuma are going to get hit again. Seth will get nerfed, because he always does. Unblockables will most likely be taken out somehow (inb4 they fuck up), and the bottom 15 will get some buffs.

HP TK is fine as is. Y’all want it to be faster? Y’all want HP TK feints to be that much harder?

If I were to get “greedy”, I would ask for reducing the startup of her c.HK by 1 frame to make the cs.HP xx HP TK feint > c.HK and meterless FADC > c.HK combos a bit easier. And to get really greedy: remove the hurtbox on Viper’s leg for her fs.HK.

inb4 Viper nerfed like Yang
lol community input
lol

28

The best anyone can ask for is just fixing cr.MK, I seriously doubt Viper is going to get any buffs. If she does it’s going to be a minor useless consolation prize so we can say “Well at least she got one buff to deal with her 4 nerfs”. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be posting buff suggestions, I’m just saying don’t be surprised when none of it makes the cut for AE2013.

29

Yeah capcom sucks and the worst part is they’ll act like they listen to the community

30

this lol.
I agree that she honestly dosent need much but I WANT something. she has literally gotten ever so slightly weaker in every game. We deserve our low forward extension lol. Does anyone think that making hp.tk box wider would help her? I want them to just either give her atleast give her 1 normal she can use in footsies OR a normal that makes up for angles she cant really AA. I dont think it would be a bid deal to speed up FPTK because as it is I often do FFF too fast anyways. This would help AA and wouldnt make FFF that much harder IMO

31

thatd be cool too so characters like yang cant cr.short you to death and not worry about fp tk

32

make EXTK able to juggle an airborne opponent even after both hits.

end of list.

33

alright everyone viper suggestions open up tomorrow lets represent this shit

34

What do you guys think about buffing close s.RH/f+RH? I’d like to see it get buffed so it can be used in footsies and frame traps more.

Right now it’s 12f start up, 1(8)3 active frames, 17f recovery that’s -2 on block and +3 on hit. 40+60 Damage, 125+75 Stun, and 60+20 meter gain.

I’d like to see the start up decreased to something like 9 frames. Right now, it’s used preemptively in footsies against long range pokes that hit low, such as shoto’s low forwards. It’s to the point that people that do use it for this purpose throw it out randomly hoping that it’ll hit as intended because it’s too slow to properly react to a whiffed normal.

I want the first kick to be special cancel-able on block & hit so that if it’s FTK feinted we’re at +frames. On block, cancelling into jab or strong TK does not form a true block strong and is susceptible to reversals; however, after a FTK feint she should be +2. On hit, after a FTK feint I want the frame advantage to be +5 so that you have a 1f link to c.Strong or 2f link with s or c.Jab, which will make jab see slightly more use because it’s only used in certain circumstances that aren’t even that necessary. On Counter Hit, after a FTK feint I want the frame advantage to be able to combo into s/c.Fierce. I’m hoping what this does will counter hit c.short throw techs by going over it, since it’s a low, and then you get to punish hard but only if you have the execution for it. If they do c.jab or c.strong they’ll be able to interrupt you. It’ll add another element to her frame trap game while slightly improving her footsies.

The second kick should be -3 or 4 on block but +6 on hit so that you link c.Strong xx TK from it. This way she has an alternative way to punish back dashes. Of course, if they buff close s.RH/f+RH to this degree it should deal less damage, stun, and meter gain so something like 30+50 Damage, 40+60 Stun, and 40+10 meter gain.

35

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29871669/c-viper-balance-suggestions?pg=1

Get in there!

36

deleted

37

I was planning on just being a troll and asking for a Viper Corridor, Hyper Viper Beam, and Optical Laser, but I’ll be a little more serious.

So many people complain that Viper is overpowered, yet Viper players complain that she needs to get buffs. This comes from those certain people being inexperienced with the game to not fully optimize their punishes, evasions, footsies, or zoning games in playing against Viper, or simply having characters that lack one or more of those aspects. Viper players complain because the characters that can utilize their moves can easily shut her mixup, footsies, and zoning game down, due to her lack of normals that are footsie-worthy and wakeup game that she can get easily option selected or punished for their opponents’ smart decision making.

Her fast-paced, flashy, glass-cannon playstyle has attracted many high-level players to pick her up and do well in tournaments with her, yet as of late, many of those high-level players have left her behind and moved onto other characters, or at least having secondary characters just in case (starting with Combofiend in the old arcade days, we have seen Uryo, Flash, Wolfkrone, and Jayce the Ace drop her or using other characters in tournaments in conjunction, and even Latif has been playing Fei Long quite often lately on his stream). Abel, Sakura, Zangief, Akuma, Fei Long are all characters that possess (while different) a similar play style to Viper in that they lead heavily mix-up based matches, yet each and every one of those characters excel in footsies far better than Viper ever has in any of her iterations.

In order to mend her pride as one of the top characters, I would like to suggest the following changes:

cl.st.lk - 5 frame chainable normal, chainable to lp/lk. To ask for a start-up buff may be too much, but I believe asking for a buff on block advantage shouldn’t be too much. Eating a DP after trying to bait it out because it’s -3 seems ridiculous.

Then I got lazy. Fuck being serious. Trolling’s way easier than this shit.

38

Lainy please finish and post, we must be heard broski.

39

Uryo’s suggestions for Viper:

*This character is already perfect as-is so I hope they don’t mess with her too much.

If I have to say something…
– Increase damage on J.FP by 10
– Increase damage on Super by 30
– Make the second hit of F.RH super-cancellable*