01-Akuma
02-Dhalsim
02-O.Sagat
04-Claw
05-Boxer
06-DeeJay
07-O.Claw
08-Guile
09-O.Dhalsim
10-Chun-Li
11-O.Chun-Li
12-Ryu
13-Sagat
14-O.Boxer
15-O.Guile
16-Honda
17-O.Honda
18-Blanka
19-O.Ryu
20-Dictator
21-O.Ken
22-Fei Long
23-Cammy
23-O.Cammy
25-O.Fei Long
26-O.Dictator
27-O.DeeJay
27-Ken
29-O.Hawk
30-Hawk
31-Zangief
32-O.Zangief
33-O.Blanka
If you use that chart and only consider the 16 ST characters and how they did vs each other, you get this:
1 Dhalsim 100
2 Claw 94
3 Boxer 91
4 DeeJay 86
5 Guile 81
6 Chun-Li 80
7 Ryu 77
8 Sagat 76
9 Blanka 72
9 Honda 72
11 Fei Long 70
12 Dictator 69
13 Cammy 67
14 Ken 59
15 Hawk 53
15 Zangief 53
Now, only the O. characters vs themselves:
1 O.Sagat 107
2 O.Claw 90
3 O.Dhalsim 87
4 O.Chun-Li 84
5 O.Boxer 82
6 O.Guile 81
7 O.Honda 77
8 O.Ryu 74
9 O.Ken 73
10 O.Cammy 71
11 O.Dictator 68
12 O.Fei Long 66
13 O.DeeJay 65
14 O.Hawk 64
15 O.Zangief 57
16 O.Blanka 54
Finally, here’s what you get if you use the top ranked version of each character, aka all ST except O.Sagat, O.Ken, and O.Hawk.
1 O.Sagat 100
2 Dhalsim 97
3 Claw 94
4 Boxer 88
5 DeeJay 83
6 Chun-Li 78
7 Guile 77
8 Ryu 76
9 Blanka 70
9 Honda 70
11 O.Ken 67
12 Fei Long 66
13 Cammy 65
13 Dictator 65
15 O.Hawk 52
15 Zangief 52
>scaryice
If you’re trying to determine character ranking then you have to factor in all the characters. Not just one group of characters at a time, because it skews results. Like for example N.Guile maybe considered better than O.Guile, but O.Guile may do better against a particular character than N.Guile does.
You must have mistaken me for AfroCole, cause I don’t play Sim, and I never used him at evo west.
St Rh stops his occasionally jump ins if Sagat gets impatient, standing short I think beats his short if get into poking match, and his neutral backfist helps because he can keep a charge and throw out another SB.
Yeah, Afro Legends is a Deejay user for the most part.
Thanks for the compliment though.
New Sagat - Dhalsim = 1-9? I hoped at least a 2 :sad:
O.sagat is for sissies
Revive thread! Revive!!!
If you are going to resurrect a thread then at least contribute something meaningful to it. If you are just going to bump an old thread without adding anything to it then do not bother at all. Post less and read more.
Here’s the most recent Japanese match chart. The more lopsided a match is rated the more effective it is as a counter pick.
Here’s some American match charts over the years. James Chen puts Cammy vs Honda at 0-10.:sad:
wow 1.5 Hawk vs Cammy :(, i wonder because this is still played in japan and with the SBO having ST this year if the match ups have changed since 08??
That’s only N.Hawk though. Hawk’s jumping jab whiffs against Cammy if she is crouching which makes the match far more difficult than it already is for Hawk. Her dragon punch completely keeps N.Hawk from doing much of anything as well and is basically a solid anti-air for everything that Hawk has. And Hawk’s dragon punches whiff against Cammy if she’s crouching from practically point blank range as well. Basically N.Hawk has an impossible time of getting in on Cammy and even if he does she can push him out with a dragon punch and then play keep away. Hawk also dies embarrassingly to cross ups on occasion as well. Watch [media=youtube]LX4l4NBqCyk"[/media] of N.Hawk and O.Hawk versus Cammy.
O.Hawk fares slightly better though it’s still rather lopsided. The better normals make footsies a less aggravating exercise. The better dragon punches open up a more [media=youtube]H4UDUkMqhyA&#t=3m05s"]effective throw loop though it’s probably the hardest thing to execute in all of ST on a consistent level. O.Hawk can’t soften throws which means you might get thrown then mashed with a big cross up combo. This is one of those matches in ST [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY8Yp1G9kuM&#t=3m55s”[/media] until you get that one opening and go for a one hit kill or a sequence of throws and just hope for the best.
N.Hawk vs Cammy, probably 1-9. One of the hardest matches in ST. Cammy has to make multiple mistakes to lose this match.
O.Hawk vs Cammy, 3-7, which is better but not exactly good. If you knock Cammy down you can score some guaranteed damage but the execution requirement is very high.
Out of curiosity: if the Hawk player masters built-in DPs, can he have guaranteed safe-jumps as in against the shotos, who get hit around the head? I have the impression Cammy’s cannon spike is around SRK priority, but I ain’t sure how her hitboxes interact with Hawk’s.
[media=youtube]SfFBamH0wek&#t=3m05s[/media]
[media=youtube]mZA76Go3O3Y&#t=1m42s[/media]
[media=youtube]Ok_KzYTwqBk&#t=3m37s[/media]
Against N.Ryu you can do a jab dragon punch and beat everything he has but his SUPER off of a safe jump. Against the SUPER as a reversal you need to [media=youtube]GmU6g8hgCCA&#t=1m04s"[/media] (much easier said than done) or block it and then go from there. If you don’t want to do a built in dragon punch then you can use crouching strong punch as well to punish whiffed dragon punches and hurricane kicks from N.Ryu. N.Ken, O.Ryu, and O.Ken have way better dragon punches than T.Hawk so it is best to bait reversal dragon punches and then hit them out of the air after they reach the apex of their dragon punch. Trying to stuff those dragon punches with a built in jab dragon punch will get you nowhere. O.Ken and O.Ryu have dragon punches that are invincible from startup to the point where they reach their vertical peak, so they beat basically every simultaneous attack.
Tons of T.Hawk players in the last year have started doing far standing neutral jab on wakeup into negative edge with no built in dragon punch. O.Hawk’s standing jab in particular stuffs a lot of reversals but the timing is very strict and hit confirming off of it is basically impossible because it’s so quick. If you have a hard time safe jumping and doing dragon punch installs then this is an easier approach for okizeme. And considering that VIPER and Shin are using it shows that it is an effective alternative to the more traditional throw loop.
[media=youtube]KmZzIArjE8U[/media]
[media=youtube]f32FsUwsaEM&#t=7m58s[/media]
[media=youtube]GmU6g8hgCCA&#t=8m05s[/media]
There were some O.Ken versus N.Hawk matches uploaded to YouTube recently but I can’t remember what video they are on. Basically it showed the Hawk player going for meaty attacks into negative edge command throw, or simply crouching near his opponent. and waiting for a reversal dragon punch to punish for every okizeme situation.
Damn. Great reply, VF4, and thank you very much for that, but I have messed up that post. Good thing it was a quite informative message, and I actually learned they prefer tatsu as a reversal, rather than SRK. I guess they know the SRK will not only lose to the rising hawk, to blocking and then 360.
My intended question was about Cammy. But this time, instead of being a lazy ass, I have decided to search things and learned he does beat her reversal cannon spikes with rising hawk. Still, they seemed to favor cr.jab. I suppose they can position it just outside of the first 3 attack frames from cannon spike (pages 59 and 54 from YBH), making it whiff. But even if they were on top of Cammy, they would take the risk and try the tick.
Edition: I wonder if VIPPER wouldn’t make Gief broken in HF, with his ticking skills together with the better lariats and the SPD range. I have played a guy who admits he uses macros and could only beat him 1/8 of the matches because he would make some mistakes: negative-edge walk up SPD is very strong.
From YBH:
Hawk’s cr.jab: 4-4-4 (T. Akiba says it’s 6 for recovery)
Rising Hawk: 4-5-end of invulnerability
Cannon Spike: 4-3-end of invulnerability
thanks VF4 for the reply! very educative stuff!!