Usually sonic booms are thrown out in poke strings or from a distance where chun (or anyone) jumpnig will be in guile’s favour. So either way a sonic boom does not even close to equal a free jump in unless the person fucks up. As I see it it would require guile to throw the sonic boom AFTER chun leaves the ground. A sonic boom during a poke string leaves you with no space to jump … and a sonic boom outside of one is usually placed so that guile can basically do anything.
There is no way chun can jump from her max range on reaction to a sonic boom, her jump is fairly high, not exactly fast like vegas and naks. Maybe a headstomp might beat/trade with guiles anti airs, but a crossup short will easily be down fierced.
I think the worst case scenario for guile throwing a sonic boom is he will be forced to block a jump in, either tech a tick-throw, or block a poke string. And once this is done, I believe he has the advantage once again. But this is the only thing i can see possibly going wrong and guile would have to try very hard to have this happen imo.
I’ve been wondering lots about this matchup. I played a few games agains a guile, and eagle does a lot better than lots of other characters i’ve tried.
Things i’ve noticed:
jumping straight up over sonic booms with eagle doesnt leave guile with many options most of the time. Eagle will beat a jumping follow up. If guile walks under eagle can do a j.forward or land and block depending on how far guile walks (so depending on what move he will throw out). I dont think it’s completely safe but it does help slow down guard break strings until an opportunity arises.
High (early) j.roundhouses beat/trade with guiles normal anti airs. This is useful when their charge is broken. It also sets up distance well for a cross up round house, or a jab then cross up roundhouse depending on where you land. If you trade on the jump in you are still in a good range to use your c.forward against guile (or any one of eagles high priority pokes with varying ranges).
Mid counter works against a lot of guiles jump ins (this might have been because they are deep). After guile poke strings ending with a sonic boom that leave them outside of his c.forward range, you can mid counter guiles s.roundhouse, or hold it and counter the jump in. I think the mid counter will hit if they stand there and do nothing too, so it seems to me it’s a fairly safe move at that point.
I definately dont know the matchup well enough to say who wins. But those are just things ive noticed from a few games. They might not be clear advantages, but at least he doesnt get guard broken for free
why isn’t eagle top tier? he does very well against a LOT of the top tier because of a few moves…
jumping strong/forward. if eagle jumps straight up, and somebody wants to jump at him and attack, hardly anything can beat these two mediums.
standing fierce punch (crouching roundhouse to a lesser extent). EXCELLENT whiff punisher. just dance around and wait for the whiff, then press standing fierce.
medium punch counter. THE answer to a lot of the more annoying RC’s. sakura’s RC fireball and hurricane kick, blanka’s RC electricity, RC honda hands (pissed mago off when i used it on him at evo), vega’s RC rolling ball. throw mp counter out, let it absorb a few hits, then smack them. congratulations, you’ve just scored a knockdown and gained tons of meter.
crouching mk. tons of priority, deceptive range, and breaks up the opponent’s attempt to continue block strings and reset the distance to eagle’s liking. sets up tons of counter-hit opportunities.
crouching fp. excellent natural anti-air with good priority. beats lots of characters with fast jumps (ie vega, mai, or blanka).
now i’m not saying that eagle is flawless, but here’s what i think are some of his problems…
slow walking speed. trying to punish whiffs against characters like cammy/chun li/vega is very difficult because they can just dance around and make footsies much more difficult.
difficult to punish crossups. unless you can RC lariat EVERY TIME, eagle has a problem dealing with crossups other than just rolling away (ghetto). i don’t know if the regular lariat has enough invincibility frames/priority to use without RC’ing it.
problems with low jumps. unless you’re in a low jumping groove with eagle yourself (which you really shouldn’t be because C and A are his best grooves), he has a hard time dealing with properly zoned low jumps because his crouching fp won’t reach. if you did have low jump yourself, then you could just low jump mp/mk or sometimes fp all day.
problem dealing out damage outside of A-groove. since eagle plays such a strong zoning/turtling game, he gets his damages in bits and pieces instead of large chunks. sure he has a powerful C-groove cancel, but your objective with eagle shouldn’t be to get that close very often anyway.
that’s all i’ve got for now. i’d like to hear some of the top players opinions on why people don’t use eagle very much/why he’s not top tier.
His st FP, if blocked, is punishable by quick moves (e.g. Cammy, Blanka level 3 supers)
As you mentioned, he has no really good anti-crossup.
You need good execution to make Eagle dangerous. cr LK, cr LP, cr MK -> super isn’t the easiest combo in the world. His BnB of cr LP, cr LP, st MK -> hcf+MK is easy to mess up too (you need to cancel the st MK really really quickly). Bad to mess these things up in tournaments.
He doesn’t have a godlike L2 super cancel in C groove.
This is my personal opinion, but Eagle doesn’t have a “scary” factor. Like if you’re against raged Blanka or full meter C-Sagat, you feel scared. But full meter Eagle isn’t really that scary.
However I do feel that Eagle is like K-Geese. He’s probably top tier and as soon as some Japanese player uses him everyone will be like OMG EAGLE!!!111111111111oneoneone
Also what do you people think of doing repeated RC lariats against Sagat?
1- yep, but eagle should NEVER throw those moves out unless he’s punishing whiffed pokes. if you’re dumb enough to randomly throw out such a laggy long range move when your opponent has a level 3 spin-drive smasher, direct lightning ball, or sonic hurricane, just don’t even play eagle.
2- i’ve kinda found that if you look for the opponent’s crossup, you can super jump straight up and press mp. kinda ghetto, but better than missing an RC and your opponent getting a fat crossup combo.
3- i’ve realized that you can make combos as easy or as hard as you want with eagle. your super combo is pretty jacked up. if you want it to be super easy, do crouching lp, cr lp, cr lk, super. you can hit all the buttons rapid fire because there is no linking involved. or cr lp x2, cr mk, super, which isn’t too hard either. i think his bread and butter is super easy also. the link is has very lenient timing, and buffering the hcf + punch is pretty easy.
now if you want difficult combos with eagle, try this for a B&B- crouching lp x2, crouching HP, hcf + p. and i remember apoc posted some really jacked up and difficult combo on fat characters that goes something like crossup hk, crouching mp, crouching lp, crouching hp, super:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
4- i think eagle does very well in C-groove because his meter practically regains itself. do a level 2, then cancel into hcf + mp to get some meter back and do good stun damage. or do level 2 into level 1 for a little over 8000 damage R2 to R2. i’d like to know what this 9555 tragic C-groove combo is or where the video is at…
5- as you said, “scare factor” is all relative. ANYONE who is raged in K-groove or has a full A-groove bar is dangerous. i’m almost more scared of a solid footsy vega than of some things, just because it’s difficult to score your hits. certain players fear certain things more than others.
oh yeah, another pro-eagle factor is that he does really good stun. his B&B alone does 30 points. not as scary as kyo or sagat, but still dangerous nontheless.
and what’s the general consensus on honda? he’s not so much all about RC headbutt nowadays (unless the other character can’t do anything about it), but more RC slappy hands. the only character i can think who REALLY counters that off the top of my head is eagle and his mp counter. he also has huge vitality and solid AA options with his standing hp and lp headbutt…
hey buktooth, is vega considered top tier in japan? i’ve only seen makoto play a p-vega, and that’s about it. do the japanese know something that we don’t that makes him easier to fight? sure he doesn’t get his damage in big chunks, but he’s an excellent battery and gradually whittles down the opponents life and adds to the frustration factor.
the only real advice i’ve heard to beat vega is to rush down and low jump with a high priority move, but that is kinda inconsistent. any advice?
Cammy vs. Chun: I’ve always put this in Cammy’s favor. Care to elaborate Buk?
vs. Yama: hit his s.rh with your c.rh. Sure, SBK traps put you in 50/50 situation, but if you’re smart you’d just do it when he has a lvl 1. Other misc stuff works in this match. I have to update my faq @_@
Yama I have no idea. I know next to nothing about Yama matches since nobody plays him that well here. Gunter JUST started using A-Yama so I guess I can learn something soon.
Chun Li vs Cammy is basically a study of risk vs reward. 90% of the match is Cammy s.roundhouse vs Chun s.strong footsies, where both characters are doing roughly the same thing with the same objective. However, Chun only needs 2 clean hits to win (and one clean hit sets up another one really well) and Cammy needs… a lot more. Cammy needs a level 3 to be threatening. Chun is threatening 95% of the match since she always has level 1. She also has a MAJOR advantage in having a good roll. Rolling through a predicted Cammy roundhouse is one of the easiest ways to end the round. If you roll badly, generally you’ll either get thrown or a fierce into drill. No big deal. If both characters are close to each other and have a priority battle, Chun’s low strong will beat ALL of Cammy’s moves. Chun li also has another advantage in the footsie game by having a longer ranged low move: her low forward.
Since 90% of the match is a footsie game where Chun has advantages (especially if Cammy doesn’t have meter), the Cammy player either has to have way better footsies than chun or has to be able to get in to do Cammy’s counter hit/throw mix ups. Since Cammy’s jumps, dive kicks and rolls are all useless in this fight, she has to resort to random dashes or random drills to get in… unless the Chun player gets stupid and lets herself be uppercutted.
Nope. Consider the weaknesses Cammy has and multiply them by like 3 or something. It’s another case of risk vs reward. Sure, Vega can annoy the hell out of opponents by whittling away at their life, but ONE mistake like a low strong/slide that got rolled or jumped over and Vega gets beat up. Not only that, but his vitality is really low AND gets worse when he loses his claw/mask. He also doesn’t have a lot of comeback factor if the opponent is content on sitting on a lead. He either has to guard break REALLY slowly with the occasional poke (to lessen the chance of having it rolled through) or if he has low jump, go for a empty low jump into low short stand jab super.
Chun can’t beat up close and deep Sakura dive kicks. Cammy dive kick —> just as good, if not better than Sakura’s. Therefore, Chun can’t beat up close and deep Cammy dive kicks.
K-chunners is the worst of them all (i think even P is better). there’s tons of better K-groove characters than chun li because what makes chun li good is her constant level 1 supers/C-groove combo of death, and you can only get your super by getting hit or JD’ing like a fiend. A-chunners isn’t as bad because at least she has level 1’s, but her customs are average overall.
if the teams in your signature are correct, i’d recommend putting K-blanka on one of them. K-blanka is a beast:D
Blanka isn’t my style. i’ve tried playing with cammy/blanka and had good success with them, i just do better with almost anyone but blanka/cammy. blanka and cammy just arent my style. hell, i do surprisingly well with k-dhalsim in the arcades.
Chun-Li against Yamazaki is a pretty even fight. Mostly it depends on grooves.
Without RC, you have no anti-air against a low jumping Cammy. Also RC SBK gives Yamazaki a LOT of problems. At least it does for me since I have K groove. If you have N groove and can RC dust kick for “anti-air” (you know what I’m talking about if you’ve tried this. it doesn’t do anything but at least you don’t get hit).
I’ll simplify. C/N Chun vs. K-Yamazaki turns into an RC fest. Until I have meter, you can do RC SBKs until you get bored. What am I going to do, jump out of the way? The only real (that actually works without guessing) solution is to JD all 2/4/6 hits. Most people can’t or won’t do it. Basically just do SBKs until he proves he can stop you. For fun mix in crossup short, something else K-Yamazaki can’t do much about. If you’re in N, mixing in low jump shorts helps too.
Any Chun vs. N-Yamazaki is probably in Yamazaki’s favor. You can get out of the way of SBK traps and basically it turns into you trying to anti-air her. Yama’s poking will totally beat hers. Low jump at her with fierce and she has a really hard time getting in. Yamazaki’s anti-air in this fight is jump fierce, stand strong, roll, rc dust and THEN low fierce. Low fierce does essentially nothing but give her a counter hit. Avoid it.
If you care, N-Yamazaki is probably the best Yamazaki in every possible way. If I was smart, I’d learn N because all my characters are N groove characters. But…I just don’t care enough anymore.
