I’d like to say straight up that Ryu and Ken suck a shitload vs like all the top tier. I think Ryu might have a good chance vs Cammy and possibly Chun Li. Ken seems do better against Guile and Blanka… but he still gets raped.
My guess as to why Japanese think C groove Sagat is so good is because they know the matchs off all the characters really well… and they have plenty of tricks to land hits versus certain characters… and C groove Sagat can turn those hits into 1/2 life combos and shitload of Sagat.
Out of curiosity, why does Sakura rape Sagat? I know st RH punishs cr FP, and st FP whiffs. But if that were simply the case Cammy and Chun should rape him just as badly. But they don’t… so what else does she have going for her?
It’s very frustrating for Sagat when all Sakura does is walk back and forth and press s.HK. Everytime Sagat does manage to get in, Sakura can take back the advantage by doing hard RC hurricane. If Sagat jumps, he eats anti-air CC. If Sagat sits back and tries to get Sakura to come to him. Sakura builds a lot of meter with kara fierce dive kicks. On top of all that, Sagat is a big cross up target. After one blocked crossup, Sakura can take away half your guard meter with one string.
Sagat’s safe strategy options are limited. He can jump in from far with HK and try to trade, throw fireballs from far to stop meter building dive kicks, and try to bait whiff hurricanes so he can punish with jump back HK or roll, fierce punch. Pretty boring match. I don’t like playing as either character when this match comes up.
This is by far the easiest thing to JD, especially after a telegraphed cr MP. You just need to press cr LK after every two hits and voila, huge combo for you.
No really try JDing Chun Li’s SBK in training mode. I got 100% execution after like 2 minutes. Maybe 3.
standing strong and ducking fierce counters her fly ins to keep her grounded.
her rc fireball can be reflected on reaction if you gauge distance well. She’ll actually eat the fireball if you’re close enough (this may be able to combo into the super wall press, havent tried it yet). If not she’ll have to block it or roll thru which can be punished on reaction with a the wall press into super or super wall press
If she does get a chance to get in by flying high you can use his dp kick to stop her from high above you
These are some things i noticed in training mode with 5 min of practice. maybe buktooth can shed some more info on this subject
No. One knockdown = Rugal loses. Morrigan can just play with him for free from there. He has nothing fast enough to take care of her once she gets in except maybe Kick super and RC grab, and RC grab has so much start up you can block it on reaction.
You’re also assuming she’s being used in a Run groove. She isn’t always. I use her very well in Dash grooves.
There’s also other stuff, like there’s a bunch of normals that she use while running/flying to actually stop the low fierce because it’s kinda slow. IIRC esp. flying mp, it’s really fast and I am about 90% sure it will hit his limb before the hitbox appears.
Ok i’m no expert but here’s some of my theories on the match up:
Any character knocked down by morrigan is in for some shit if he doesent have a super or custom get out jail free card. Morrigans mix up is pretty scary but it can be weathered if you pay close attention and dont panic. If u do panic and she has the super well you’re eating it and thats final. If she doesen’t have the super you get knocked down i believe at worse that leads to another mix up set up which you have to deal with unless you’re playing in a groove (K, A, N) that lets you tech roll or whatever its called when u get knocked down. I dunno it just seems to me that if you keep your cool and pay attention you’ll have a chance of surviving the mix up. It does stop.
Off the top of my head right now I dont see any added threat of a non flying morrigan except when u get knocked down by her she has that terry style ‘hop-over’ game. Which pales in comparison to the flying morrigans mix up game. I could be wrong tho.
As far as her flying strong yes it has good priority and it even trades pretty fairly with rugal on health it seems. And even tho it will beat the fierce at times it also eats the fierce at other times. From what i can tell its like this: If the strong is out a lil early it will beat rugal as his hand is coming out. Rugals standing fierce beats it as long as it actually gets to come out. Its one of those things where they both have a gang of attacks that can trade/beat the other all the time but one things for sure you dont wanna try to fly when that things being thrown out at you. It keeps her grounded i feel, similar to the stading fierce by Sagat.
I just started playing rugal maybe a month ago and i’m not that good with him yet. I havent even figured out many of the vs. matches in theory yet. One of the few matches i’ve taken time to think about is this one. I’ve only played one morrigan match which was vs eric lee some random night in berkeley, got spanked and came to the conclusion i shoulda been more agressive. So yea this is from my limited knowledge/experience. Let me know what you think
The thing is, Rugal in particular dies horribly if you get in close to him and keep in his face. Like if you ever see Rugal play, he keeps people the fuck off of him because that’s the only time his stuff any good. Stand fierce and crouch fierce are probably two of his best pokes and they whiff on small characters. Not to mention the horrible start up. Genocide Cutter takes fifty years to come out and when it does it only hits shit that’s on the ground. The only things he can use up close to get you off are RC wall grab, maybe short x3 -> kick super, or just kick super, and of course AC. Most chars have a way to get her off and breathe, Rugal doesn’t. Not without meter he doesn’t. And using meter just to breathe every time you get rushed down means you’re at a horrible disadvantage.
Morrigan just makes it worse.
They play like two entirely different characters almost. Alot of people don’t like her Dash because Run is technically so much better, but I beg to differ. I think they’re both just as good since you her differently with it. If you’re trying to accomplish the same thing with Dash as you are with Run then yes, it sucks ass.
In any case, a flying Morrigan will probably beat Rugal 9 times out of 10, unless Rugal magically manages to zone her out the ENTIRE match. He just can’t do that.
I dont know about this match up first hand. But I know that RC kills morigans fireball/air dash game… I know this because sakuras rc rh hurricaine owns that shiet I assume rugal can RC his dark barrier/wall press as anti air (against morrigan)… I still think rugal gets owned though.
EDIT: The thing is dark barrier is stationary, and morrigan can just as easily cross up as go in front… and wall press isnt very reliable as anti air… that’s why i think rugal still gets owned… the only other thing I can think of is jumpback air fist thingy…
hey viscant, mind telling why specifically you like eagle vs guile? i think eagle’s crouching mk works well for counter hits linked into standing fierces because almost nothing beats eagle’s crouching mk up close. i’m guesing if guile throws a sonic boom, eagle can jump straight up and come down with mk and most likely trade or maybe even beat guile’s move, depending on what move guile throws out.
i’m all theory fighter on this one because i’ve never played guile vs eagle. your input is appreciated.
oops, i forgot about what you posted. just wanted to get viscant’s point of view because i bet he’s played more guiles than we have.
anyway, i think mp counter wouldn’t be bad if you SAW the beginnings of the standing rh, and countered on reaction. otherwise, you’re likely to just get hit by a sonic hurricane (if they have it) or low forward.
and what could eagle do if guile throws a sonic boom, walks after it, and does a backfist besides just air block it (if eagle’s in C-groove) or just defend/parry? does jumping mk have that much priority? or maybe eagle could come down with jumping rh…
Ok, if guile throws a sonic boom, he has a long way to walk to do a backfist. Because you will not be jumping up over a lot of sonic booms in poke strings (because sometimes they will hit you on the way up, and i think it will put you in a bad situation regardless) And guile has to be outside the range where you can jump in and force him to block your attack (ie when you can jump over sonic boom and beat/trade with his normals… and an rc isnt happening because he’s lost his charge). Plus you can change things by super jumping rather than jumping. I admit I cant talk more specificially because I only encountered a backfist once… and at that time my c.forward came down on the top of the backfist and won… but for the most part guile has to walk into his attack range before he can attack, so your move will come out first…
C-Groove cannot air block ground attacks. So you cannot air block it if it happens. But it is still one of many possibile situations that can happen. And like I said before, it might not be a clear advantage, but it does help delay being guard crushed… which is always good when fighting guile
and if you read my post i suggest the mid counter thing for when guile was outside of his c.mk range and had just thrown a sonic boom, I believe eagles counter outranges it although i may be mistaken… in which case if it looks like guile is walking in a little bit you just let go and hit him… if he does a roundhouse you counter and push him back to where he started… and if he jumps in you can still counter it (although im not sure if this is at all heights… and atm I forget the specific attacks for which this worked) and I also believe i mentioned something about not when they had bar…
Just wondering what you guys think…
I assume rugal can RC his dark barrier/wall press as anti air (against morrigan)… I still think rugal gets owned though.