Counter characters and grooves?

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Sooo, I just wanted to get the opinion of some of the more experienced players. I haven’t played in a year, and it seems like a lot has changed… it seems like EVERYONE is using A-Vega, Sak, Bison, Blanka now and I’m having a rough time adjusting (it’s also b/c I’m a little rusty as well). Anyway, here are a few questions I have:

  1. Besides A-groove GC madness, what counters P-groove…
    Specifically, P-Cammy and P-Vega? What is the most effective way to attack a turtling P-groove team?

  2. How do you avoid being shoshoed to death in K-groove?

  3. Who counters/how do you deal with:
    -A-Vega
    -A/C-Blanka
    -A-Sak
    -A-Bison
    -C/K-Sagat
    -Cammy

2

Actually, just a couple more Qs:

  1. Is there any avoiding rollsuper/rollthrow? It seems inevitable that I ocassionally eat one of these and it’s so much of a guessing game when they roll from a distance just far enough where you can’t throw them. Yamazaki for example = S

  2. On the topic of rolling, what’s the best way to deal with fast rolls? Kim in particular has a pretty ridiculous roll that’s very hard to punish (at least for me; maybe it’s a timing thing?)

3

Making them guess parry on a constant basis.
Doing things that are very hard to parry, or put them in a situation where they can’t parry(air throwing instead of attacking for AA)

Kill Sakura really fast so that she doesn’t get meter, or bait the CC

** -A-Vega**
counter poke his limbs, knock him down and make him guess directions on wakeup/crossup/etc, bait RC Rolling Claw at certain ranges
-A/C-Blanka
Bait Blanka Ball and counter if they use jab ball to get in.
Bait reversal RC Elec
Punish RC Elec if they whiff close to you for meter
Learn the timing to throw if they dash xx RC Elec
Stay out of slide range.
-A-Sak
Kill her fast
-A-Bison
Stay out of range of short scissor but inside of forward/RH scissor because if they do forward/RH scissor, it’ll be two hits and easy to punish.
Don’t jump
Out range him and keep him out with something fast recovering
-C/K-Sagat
Don’t back yourself into the corner.
Punish limbs
Be patient
-Cammy
Keep her out and counter poke the st. RH if you can.
I think with Cammy, its more character specific strategies than anything else IMO.

hit them at the end of the roll, or jump to a spot where the super doesn’t hit/they can’t hit u at all.
I would practice just hitting them out. Its the better option overall.
But watch the meter also.
If they have super, then block and tech the throw, or do a quick jab xx whatever combo for a knockdown.
If there’s no super/CC, then risk attacking them and punishing.

Yeah its mostly a timing thing. Just hit them faster.
Watch for certain rolls that might crossup though.

It would help if you posted characters also.

4

NINJA EDIT:

A-vega - c-sagat, a-rolento, c-kim, n-iori, a-bison, a-blanka

a-blanka - a-sakura, a-hibiki, p/k-cammy, a-eagle

a-sak - a-vega, c-honda, n-iori, p-cammy

a-bison - c-sagat, n-chun li

c/k-sagat - a-hibiki, n-chun li, a/k-mai, c-guile

cammy - c-sagat, a-vega, c/n-yamazaki, n-iori, k-rock, a-joe

i dont think all of these are direct counters but they are harder matches for the characters listed.

i’m not too sure does nak counter vega anymore. back then, around 2k2-2k3 people used her to counter vega but vega has improved a lot over the years.

i say rolento works very well vs vega for a few reasons. like vs nak vega has some trouble vs their standing lps. rolentos blockstrings ending in c.mp also works on his equipment and guard bar pretty well too. while its hard for rolento to catch vega, its also hard for vega to catch rolento. also, rolento can dish out more damage per hit and has a great crossup thats hard to walk under which leads into his fairly damaging b&b.

its really hard for vega to deal with ioris roll and vega also have trouble getting iori off of him. it takes a lot longer for vega to kill iori than vice versa.

5

how do you counter Vega with Rolento and Iori?

6

  1. If you’re parry happy, people can counter you by baiting out parries and then punishing you with something else. Random high low games may counter you as well.

  2. if you have a dp (sagat/cammy/shoto), learn to dp after activate. or likewise, jd the first hit (be it st.:hk: or cr.:lk:), then dp. I wonder if you can jd into high counter with geese to stop it as well.

best thing to do is to bait the activate, so you’re ready for it.

  1. if you check this graph, this shows you on a high level how the match ups go, assuming both sides are of equal skill of course.

http://r4-raiden.shikigami.jp/diagram/index.htm

  1. & 5) everyone eats roll supers :stuck_out_tongue: I would say first gauge your opponent during the match (before they have meter) to see what they like to do after a roll. Roll super/uppercuts are pretty risky things to do, so if you can tell they’re going to do it, you can just block/avoid/tech. I would say the best defense though is know your roll distance, then stay at distances that they can’t roll super/uppercut you.

Usually this is a place where after they roll, they’re not close enough to do anything. once you get them flustered cause they can’t roll super, start pacing back and forth from their roll/super range, and try to bait out a roll. Since you’re anticipating the roll, it’s much easier to punish.

7

whatever you’re smoking, I want some.

I would say:

A-Vega - C/K Sagat, A Blanka

A Blanka - A Sak, K Hibiki(this one i’m not sure about), A Bison, K Sagat

A Sak - A/K Mai, A Vega, C Guile(not sure)

A Bison - A Vega, Sagat, K Cammy, A Sak

C/K Sagat - N - Iori, K Hibiki, A Blanka

I agree with the Cammy part.

I’m not saying these are like “direct counters” or whatever, just hard matches.

8

A-Vega - Nakoruru, Blanka, Bison
A/C-Blanka - Sakura, Hibiki
A-Sakura - Honda, Mai, Vega, Cammy
A-Bison - Blanka, Chun, Guile
C/K-Sagat - Sakura, Hibiki,
Cammy - Sagat, Honda,

9

I’m having serious issues in defeatiing a C/N-Yamazaki with K-Geese. Any suggestions?

10

AWESOME^__^… great advice all around; thanks

Noodle, do you still play CvS2? I’d be up for casual some time if you do. I haven’t played in a year and I’m pretty rusty, but I figured I’d give it one last shot before I’m married = P.

11

haha, yea, i still play. causals sounds like a great idea!

12

I don’t play against too many Yamazakis, but from the ones I’ve played the general strat is to be patient and stay out of s.HK range… as with any character you play against, it’s important to know the range of their best poke (eg, Sagat, Sak, Cammy, etc.) Reppukkens are pretty useful. Especially for N groove try not to let him get too close b/c his low jump is pretty tough to deal with as well as those retarded 50/50 mixups (not to mention ROLL SUPER = P) I’ve seen people throw out counters when they anticipate a slash (or sHK depending on the range), but I personally don’t do this; w/o super though, the punishment isn’t too bad and it sets up mixup situations if a counter connects… Geese has a pretty long jump (too bad it isn’t faster) so if you pick up a pattern then you can jump in pretty safely (watch for super of course) once you’re on top of Yamazaki try to stay close and go for the GC. That’s about all the advice I have, maybe someone else can explain this matchup better…

13

I’ll send you a PM sometime then = )… When are you usually free? I’d play at Orbit, but my skills are a little embarassing now…lol

14

Depends on what the Yama is doing really.
But for basics, if its the begining of the match(no meter), try to rush him before he gets meter. Any counter he does to you only makes it worse for Yama because its giving you meter. So rush him.

When he does get meter, stand outside of roll xx qcf super grab range and mixup air fireball and empty jump up to get him to come forward, punish accordingly with a combo to knockdown, crossup, GC/stun, repeat.

If they try to space it farther, then stand on the ground and throw jab fireballs and wait. If they don’t move, walk up just to fuck with him, don’t whiff anything really laggy. Just do like run in whiff low jab for baiting.

Get him to the point where he can’t control you with limbs and slashes.

I dunno counter pokes or anything. sorry

15

the crack from yo moms ass

16

oh ok, just making sure.

17

Hahaha that’s a good one… How do you counter an A-groove Sakura? “Kill her fast”. Hey how do you counter a Ratio 5 Bison in Q groove (rolling, CC & just defend)? “Kill him fast”. If you could just put in a strategy you could win a Nobel Peace Prize. :rolleyes: But you’re about the other stuff.

18

Dude… Kill her fast is the only way to stop you from getting chipped if you’re in K-groove. Or if you are in a groove with alphacounters and happen to have a character who can’t counter out of shosho welcom to tons of chip damage. There is a reason why many japanese choose to put there ratio 2 blanka up against a ratio one sakura, so they can survive the cheese without losing two characters. Sure Nick T. could have gone a little bit more indepth, but basically if you don’t get on top of sakura right away and take her out, you are probably going to take a good amount of cheese.

19

The guy didn’t list any characters to go off of.

So fuck you.

that was to leon not you kabuki

20

Is K-Rock a counter to anyone?