I think Pablo should stop playing Zangief.
That’s my constructive criticism for today.
Are you not a fan of the green glove love taps? I sure as hell am.
Rise From Your Grave!
Somebody needs to help me with ST. I keep jumping in and doing dangerous things.
I keep fuckin up in marvel.
Doesn’t realize it until match is over.
Is this thread only for marvel heads, because I’d love some constructive criticism in ST. Especially by Mandel since I know he’s a lot better than me at understanding games.
-You should pick Dictator and stick with him. In ST I think it’s more important than a lot of games to learn a character in and out first, then branch out. This is because ST is so matchup based, that you can’t possibly learn all the characters in the game just to make up for your weak matchups. So you stick with one, learn all your combos, setups etc, and then learn what-beats-what for your tough matchups.
-You are pretty good at throws and block strings, but I noticed only…2 or 3 real combos out of our entire session. You should definitely learn jump in, hits, scissor kicks (whatever the combo is), as it does gross ass damage. Also abuse his j. mp more, it has GROSS priority, it has hit me out of my Boxer super plenty of times.
-With your Ryu I noticed you play him more like a bootleg version of Pablo than the traditional Shoto. You should fireball whore until Seattle players give you a reason to do anything than fireball/DP trap. Seriously, the only ST player that IMO properly plays shotos is John Michael aka LTB. I wish I could get to play him more just because I know I want to go to Evo this year, and I know I will probably face 50 shotos who are flawless like him in their FB and DPs. It’s a nightmare dealing with that.
Remember though, no player has ever had the COLOSSAL heart as Pablo_the_meX.
Here’s where I can finally help you. I actually refuse to help you in Marvel anymore. My general rule is, once you’ve placed second in a Seattle tourney, you’re no longer at a level where I can help you anymore. Anyway I’ll help you out with Dictator since it seems like that’s your main.
Julian is right that you really have to stick with him and him only in the very beginning. You have to learn matchups. Anyway here’s my attempt at a shorthand version of a Dictator guide.
Pokes you wanna use…
-jumping strong
-jumping forward
-jumping roundhouse
-standing short (very fast, very good for ticking into throw)
-standing forward (very good spam it, conversely you can use standing rh as well, but standing forward is better imo)
-low forward
-low roundhouse is very good from certain distances because of the way Bison recovers.
Combos you wanna use…
-jumping roundhouse, standing short, standing short, low forward, scissor kicks/psycho crusher (dizzies, do it again and they should be dead)
-jumping roundhouse, standing short, standing short, standing rh
-jumping roundhouse, low forward, psycho crusher
-jumping strongx2, land, super or jumping strongx2, jumping strong, land, super
-(outside of the corner) Super, jumping strongx2
-(on wakeup) meaty low forward, standing short, short scissor kicks (shotos cannot wakeup dp this fyi)
-Crossup jumping roundhouse, standing short, standing short, standing short, psycho crusher
-After a headstomp, do the punch followup, land, standing forward (dizzies a lot)
Random shit off the top of my head…
-Jumping forward and jumping roundhouse are your crossups.
-Use standing short, grab A LOT.
-After a teched grab, if you time it right, low roundhouse becomes ambiguous as they land.
-Naturally psycho crusher/scissor kicks are your whiff punishment options. If you aren’t charged, use standing forward or sweep. I like to use standing forward A LOT, use it like you love it, and you will. It’s especially good to punish whiffed dragon punches.
-I like to use max range jab psycho crusher a lot. Safe, good cheese.
-Your only true anti airs are jumping strong, and super. Also your only reversal is super, so if you’re caught in a situation where someone’s trying to tick grab you and you are superless, you have to counter grab. The last place you wanna be is in the corner, especially against Honda. Your main objective is to one hit kill everyone you fight (except against Honda and maybe Zangief). With Dictator, you have the luxury of relatively easy touch of death combos, it’s worth it to wait for that one opening that gives you the win.
It also helps if you listen to the entire Thriller album before going to a ST session. You’ll hit hella combos, trust me.
As far as constructive criticism for you Julian, I haven’t seen you play in a while now. I’ll try to help with what I can remember of you playing against me. I think instead of running away from Chun where she can’t hit you with fireballs, you should aim to trade more often when she throws fireballs. I think from your end, it’s a very risky gameplan to run because she’s gaining super faster than you are. She has the advantage until you get a super, besides that, you win in the damage trade-off. Anybody would hesitate in throwing fireballs if they get hit by a couple dash punches. At risk of sounding like a broken record, you’ve gotta make more use of neutral jumping fierce. Gotta keep the ground you gain, especially when you don’t have a super.
Outside of that, I can’t really give much more criticism as I don’t know how to play Boxer, and I haven’t seen you play in a while. I will say that if you’re gonna have a secondary, that you should use someone that’s really cheap. I think having Ryu as a secondary kinda defeats the purpose because your main is a much better character. Besides that, Ryu doesn’t really counter anybody. We’ve gotta play soon though. I’ll let you know what’s up when I see my schedule.
You should come over on Friday before Preppy’s! Or to Keith’s on wednesday night.
I would also appreciate some input on my Gief. I need to work on getting my opponent scared. Nate is really good at that. Don’t know if he is willing to help me out, since his posts are ususally 3 word sentences.
You still have much to teach me, Mandel! Like when I played you, you said, “Oh, so that’s how you get in the corner.” What in the world happened? You backed up my Mag into the corner with Sent. Then you backed off, and let me DHC. What was I doing wrong, and what can I do so that it doesn’t happen again?
All I have been doing so far with Dictator is jumping up and spamming mp, which becomes obviously punishable after time. I can do jump in mk, land, lk, c.mk, psycho crusher, but I can’t add more lk’s because I tend to move backwards and thus too far away trying to charge a move.
I’m going to definitely have to use that un-dragon-punchable wakeup combo, because being reversal DPed to wakeup-crossup is just heartbreaking. But you know, I got this scrub friend who doesn’t quite grasp the concept of a “meaty” hit, so if I wanted to give him a dictionary definition I would say…
Firstly, stop using green hand as a meaty or just as a poke. Even if it hits the opponent, they recover in time to do something before you can SPD. That’s too ghetto. Save it for like once every 10 matches.
Learn his combos into sweep. The way you scare your opponent is perfecting his link combos into knockdowns. Like s.lk, c.hk for another scary knockdown, getting you even closer. I believe that you can even do c.lp, c.lp, c.hk if the jabs hit.
Watch Pony vids. http://youtube.com/watch?v=G0fb0x1EPBw&feature=related
When a normal move is out, over a downed opponent - and the active hitting frames are happening on the very first frame that he opponent is waking up. Thus, only reversal moves with the proper invincibility with get through.
I’ll help you out w/ dat ST, but I want more 1 on 1 marvel sessions with no waiting. I only played like six matches or something but I felt a small improvement. I even started seeing the trijump whiff coming… though actually blocking low was a different story. :tup:
That is a good point mechanicz, I need more cr. jab cr. rh combos. I am green hand happy and it will be hard for me to minimize this because it seems to work a lot to my advantage despite the fact that it easy to hit me out of it. I will watch some of those vids when I get home.
You need to do jump rh tick SPDs more too, and splashes, those are really scary when he repeatedly jumps at you because you know it’s only a matter of time before you get SPD’d.
Also anytime you SPD someone from midscreen, the fastest way to get into their grill again is to quickly do green hand, then walk forward. Now just go for a tick throw, or meaty cr. rh (which is beast) or link into crouching roundhouse.
Oh and MP throw is the only normal throw worth using. Fuck the face squeeze, and the abdominal nut clench - the mp powerbomb sets you up for an easy crossup splash on anyone who doesn’t tech. So… tech throws with MP if you can’t SPD in time.
Mandel was talking about his fall from top four grace, and so I bumped this thread because hey this is a Marvel thread. Dann’s gotten tons better and I’ve been taking advantage of Mandel’s defensiveness in matches - I’ve probably beat him as often this season as he beat me last season, so I think we’re evening out, and that’s most of the difference in the standings.
Marvel DOES get really boring to me when it’s Storm/Sentinel all the time. I was talking with an East Coast player about the Final Round footage, and we agreed that generally Josh360 (Iron Guy), Amir/Snakeshotpeople (Sent/Strider/Doom), Jake (Cyclops), and VDO (RogueColossusKen) were the only really fun people to watch because they had new stuff. I would add in JWong (crazy stuff with Shuma), Vegita-X (unconventional mixups with Storm, that lovely delayed Storm overhead), but –
… beyond being “good”, what’s interesting about the way you play? What makes you want to come back to it?
I think Evan is fun to watch because his Storm can go insane when he’s in rushdown mode. I don’t know how anyone can block that.
Mandel is fun to watch when his Cable goes into Orochi RowTron mode, but I think he’s been a little more defensive lately and thus I haven’t seen that as much.
Dann and Alan are interesting to me, but a lot of that is pretty standard Magneto “I touched you, you die” problems that we’ve seen before.
What I find interesting, what I find fun, about Marvel is finding a fun character and finding a way to actually hurt you with them. That’s sad in a way - Storm can run away all day, Sentinel can stupidly trade hits all day, Magnus can mash faster than you can, Cable can punish that one mistake - because the game is so lop-sided towards Storm/Sent/Capcom. Or if you’re really crazy, some team that has Storm or Sentinel (MSS, MSP, MCS, etc). You DO have to work really hard if you don’t want to run that mirror match all game long. And then I’ll play Team Shoto and watch as they die to run-away/turtle Storm/Sent and roll my eyes, because Oh My Gosh, What a Novel Strategy That Must Have Taken Lots Of Talent To Develop. :lol:
With my Tron and Megaman, I feel like I’ve played that match-ups enough that I can do OK against the whoreish big four, and then can continue to develop from there. I like doing those painful corner combos against Sentinel, the gunshot guardbreak into Tron, and other examples that show “hey maybe I can win with these random ass guys and you won’t be able to simply exploit the normal advantages of your favorite characters”. We’re not Philly so we don’t have Bryheem sitting around playing Cable/Sent/any-antiair-whatsoever and Ian’s been gone so we haven’t seen him beasting with his theme team of the day. Heck, Pablo played a really standard team last tourney.
I don’t know. I decided a long time ago that I was going to keep playing Marvel because I thought playing as Tron (on point) was hilarious, and that’s why I’ve stuck with Marvel even through the really dumb matches. I keep being asked what my “serious” team is, and to me-- I don’t really have one (maybe Scrub?) because I’m just there to have fun. =\
I remember at last year’s Super Battle Opera, all the Japanese players in THIRD STRIKE rushed the fuck down out of all the American players. No turtling, no mercy. It was awesome to behold, and I kind of think Marvel would be more interesting if more of that happened - and it wasn’t all thanks to the abusability of Magnus’ speed or Storm’s limb length or Sentinel’s smashing damage. That’s why Row’s Cable rushdown is fun to see.
Mashtastic! Anyways, these were just my random thoughts.
I myself do not experience the whole “marvel is boring” mentality but I can certainly understand it. I think for me, it has to do with the fact that I am not as good I should be yet.
It was not until recently that I had access, time, and space to have people over for marvel. More specifically, access to Dan and his extremely impressive increase in skill. You may be surprised to know that Dan and I have had sessions in Arcade mode where I played team row for around 7 hours straight against Dan on almost a weekly basis. It has helped me tremendously and I can seriously play against the more beastly teams in this game and not get frustrated. The game is pretty cut and dry at this point, but potential for brutality and the activation of beast mode is what keeps me coming back. No other fighter does this for me and that is why I will always play it.
I commend players like VDO and whatnot who do their best to hold it down with unconventional teams. However, with teams like that it seems they do some fancy stuff but mostly get beat out because the inadequacies of the low tier catch up with them. There are just too many situations where you can’t do shit against a certain character/team. Hence my appreciation of team Row, quite possibly the most impractical yet awesome team in the game.
You posed the question, “… beyond being “good”, what’s interesting about the way you play? What makes you want to come back to it?”
Hmm…nothing really. I used to play Marvel for Cable, but Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel have gotten too good now. For everything I do, someone does it much better.
Magneto-Long list of players.
Storm-Long list of players.
Cable-Row
Sentinel-Long list of players.
I don’t really think there’s any one thing defining about me. It also probably doesn’t really help that for as long as I’ve played Marvel, I’ve never really had a team I was truly comfortable with (maaaaybe Team Row).
I like the revival of the thread. Maybe I can get some feedback on improved play if I make it out next week. Brent was right about distractions being necessary sometimes…
In ST or just Marvel?
Distractions from school. Not from a game. But feedback from both games, if that’s what you mean. I realize that I need to jump forward>mk less and stop trying to use the upkicks so much (they’re such garbage…), but there are some matchups that I just don’t seem to get the hang of sometimes.