I’ve played Shari’s Vega with my Zangief, and he plays a ground game too. Let’s just say that Ganelon (who does max range dives against my Zangief) is tougher to beat than Shari. People don’t seem to know how good that tactic is vs Zangief.
Haha.
Let’s just go with that.
I don’t remember playing Shari online but I did play Ganelon at EVO somewhere along the semi-finals in losers bracket. He played a much better claw gief game than tokido did vs snakeeyez. Max range dives are tough to deal with, imo easier irl than online. I’m sure if he had won our close match he would make top 8.
+1 for ganelon’s max range dives fucking my shit up at evo.
+2 for ganelons max range dives making me feel dumb. blanka shouldn’t allow him to do that.
yeah I never allow him to max range dive against me, i do a hop forward-> v-ball, max range dives should not hit blanka at all
Well they don’t nessecarily hit me but still lol. Being used to Shari’s claw who doesn’t walldive at all it was sort of an adjustment to make when i finally got to play Ganelon.
I did alright against him.
Yeah dude I wish I could play Sharizords, vega. Lag makes it impossible, when I play him all I see is constant poke mashing x2 because of lag it looks like Vega is on crack because of how fast the pokes come out
I saw the Tokido match and am going to agree. He could have played the match much better. Though I dont think he had the talent to win that evo.
About the walldive thing: Gief has plenty of options to deal with dives just have to use the right one. Though i dont quite understand what you guys mean by max wall dives. If i read evonanon’s post correctly, he said that he beat Ganelon so obviously the dives could be delt with.
Ground Vs Air. just my opinion: I think you need both, ha i would hate to have to play foot games with a good gief the entire match!
Agreed. I use ground and air game against Gief. Makes the match go alot smoother for Claw.
+3 for max range wall dives sucking for Zangief. Vega’s ground game can be frustrating, but a good aerial Vega that knows how to exploit ranges is far harder to connect on.
While it can be argued that the guessing game is in his favor, Vega has no dive option to hit both sweep and jumping forward kick/punch. Therefore, it does have a risk to do dives against Zangief in SF2X.
A focused wall dive strategy works against even the best ST Zangief players in the world. There are risks but they can be avoided with good reactions. A solid knowledge of ground counters is also essential for when Zangief gets too close. In HDR, I think focusing on wall dives doesn’t work as well without knockdown and the optimal arc is difficult/impossible to attain with Zangief’s expanded c.HP.
As for Blanka, hopping sounds like an advantageous evasion technique in theory but I haven’t seen anyone actually use such a counter against me. In fact, I haven’t played a Blanka yet that I can’t wall dive against (although admittedly, it’s not worth the risk attempting in many situations). The best I’ve seen a Blanka handle wall dives is recently in Japan where the guy just blocked every time and relied on reactions if it looks like claw is going for the izuna drop.
That’s weird I actually made up that technique while playing you a long while back of hoping forward and V-balling those wall dives where you just hold back and open up far away.
I sometimes use backhop invincibility to evade walldives. situational though.
So Ken and Deejay are basically top tier? Fei is still at the bottom seems strange (I think he’s underrated still). Is the Gief info updated with some Snake Eyes match up knowledge? The main reason I see Sim being out of the top is people in the US not having total mastery over him and rating certain matches less in Sim’s favor than they really are. Poor Chun…
Hi here are some corrections for the incorrect wrong stuff you guys and Sirlin and everyone is mistaken on, here are the real HDR rankings:
Zangief
Fei Long
Claw
Dhalsim
Boxer
DeeJay
Blanka
Honda
Sagat
Dictator
Guile
Ryu
Ken
T.Hawk
Chun Li
Cammy
Chun Li is horrible. Zangief is easily the best character. Fei Long is up there too. Blanka is severely underrated all the time.
Oh and by the way, there is no such thing as a fake fireball move in HDR, in the sense that, it’s faking anyone out, in a way that is unique or distinct from other regular moves like standing punches. I.e. if I do a standing punch, you’re just as likely to jump.
XSPR
My list is somewhat close.
Zangief
Dhalsim
Fei Long
Boxer
Deejay
T.Hawk
Blanka
Claw
Sagat
Dictator
Honda
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Chun Li
Cammy
So, I know that these tier charts are always heavily contested. And I’ve seen some people balking at the idea of a “consensus” matchup chart for this game.
But I have to ask anyway, mostly because I’m wondering if, as a Sagat player, counterpicking against Dhalsim and Claw is justified. Why is Sagat nearly even with Claw on the consensus matchup chart on the wiki??
Seems like a really bad matchup for Sagat. Claw can slide under high shots, can react to them with a claw dive in most cases and be okay, and has all kinds of ways around the low shots, least of which not being a normal jump in with that quick ass jump and low hitting j.HK of his. Sagat has no good answer for Claw off the wall, as the tiger uppercut just isn’t invincible enough, and he doesn’t really have any air or ground moves with an upward hitbox.
It looks like most Super Turbo charts have the matchup as 3-7 in favor of Claw (against “New” Sagat), which feels more correct even in this game, in my opinion. Even with HDR Sagat being improved, I still don’t think they are the improvements he needed to improve the matchup very much at all. Am I missing some buff to HDR Sagat, or nerf to HDR Claw that changes this at all?
^ Claw vs Sagat is 7-3 in Claw’s favor? That’s pretty bad, but maybe some of it has to do with players not using Sagat right. Sirlin said nobody uses him correctly. However, I used to put more stock in what he said but after re-reading his blog and talking to him, I can’t say he knows what he’s talking about on everything.
As if my list would matter but here’s my take on the order:
Zangief
Ken
Boxer
Fei Long
Sagat
Claw
T.Hawk
Honda
Blanka
Dhalsim
Ryu
Dictator
Guile
Deejay
Cammy
Chun Li
Zangief is just a priority machine, and I feel like Ken has good tools all-around. Chun and Cammy both rely on trickery and shenanigans too much, couple of paper tigers.