Are they trying to make it look like there is a war on the men who want to be there for their children? It looks that way to me. :tdown: BTW, this is one of the reasons why women can’t find good men.
-Starhammer-
This quote cracks me up:
“
Basically this new ruling indirectly implies that mothers are the "true"parents while fathers are parents to the discretion of mothers. Under this reasoning they should also abolish child support because since it’s her baby it should also be her money that cares for it…although it seems like fatherhood only becomes relevant when it comes to the green.
lol.
“Fathers? Figments of your imagination, but that bill is VERY real and you need to pay it.” -YO MAMA!!
Keep this shit up, and Adoption will be the man’s only option.
-Starhammer-
Males: in the eyes of society you do not amount to a heap of shit unless you 1. have tons of money or 2. go out and risk being brutally slain defending promoting your country.
That’s basically what it comes down to. Any value that 99% of the population places on you is based somehow on one of those two things.
The exceptions? Your parents (your mother is the ONLY woman who will truly value you without you out right demanding it, and obviously there are a ton of fathers who either don’t know how to, have been forced out of the role by the system, or simply don’t give a shit about their children), and your best friends who you grew up with and know intimately. Even then, that’s not guaranteed.
Don’t listen to the rhetoric about “man up” or “ladies first” and all that bull shit. All that’s trying to do is reinforce points 1 and 2 and you get absolutely nothing out of it.
You have to learn to look out for numero uno, men. Then, and only then can you even think about helping someone you love.
Wow that’s complete and utter bullshit
in fact I am leaving this thread now because that link got me so heated.
are you fucking kidding me…
Did you read the comments?
A large group of those assholes bought into the whole philosophy you just pointed out as being fucking stupid.
The comments is what usually pisses me off. This wouldn’t be an issue if people could be trusted to think critically and take equal parts considiration the intristisict value of all individuals. But it doesn’t…and it’s why this sort of bullshit is allowed to continue…
A man’s want and need to be with his child should be as important as the needs of any woman. Espicially in a society where we view and praise single mothers as inspiration, when they are responsible for so many issues attributed to young males…
What’s funny is that the ghetto culture or the demographic of people most responsible for raising future criminals and sociopaths are almost entirely single moms. Now granted I know plenty of single moms who are very responsible and good people but statistics don’t lie. What’s fucked up though is that when these boys grow up to become criminals you’ll get these idiots talking about "the crises in manhood"and "toxic masculinity"and try to say that maleness in its essence is the problem…they say this completely overlooking the fact that these boys"maleness"are almost always crafted by the single moms we always hear are so inspirational and amazing.
While I can understand a father might be extremely frustrated in this situation, the court’s ruling doesn’t surprise me. As someone who has worked as a clinician in a hospital environment I’ve gotten very familiar with the extensive list of patient rights.
Ultimately speaking in the case of childbirth the woman is the patient, and if she doesn’t want someone present for a medical procedure that is her right.
You might be able to argue that the child in this situation is a patient as well. However, children are much more limited in this regard and most of their patient rights are deferred to their legal guardian. And if the child is just being born, guardianship may or may not already be established.
In other words the woman is the sole legal "legitimate"parent…again this isn’t shocking anyone.
The only thing this new policy accomplishes is removing any false pretence that fathers actually have equatable rights.
This has less to do with parent rights and more to do with patient rights.
After the child is born and is no longer biologically tied to the mother it becomes a matter of guardianship.
The fact that it’s even considered patient rights is the issue. The father, who is equal parts responsible for the child even existing in the first place should have as much right to be present at the child’s birth as the mother…the fact that his involvement is to her discretion is a problem. This also makes the issue of paternity fraud extremely dangerous because now mothers can legally withhold that information up to the child’s birth.
As stated before this policy just further amplifies the fact that fathers are yet again on the receiving end of bias and sexist discrimination.
As the child is inside her body, she has no real choice in the matter. A mother being present for her child’s birth isn’t so much a right as biological reality.
You could argue that conception is equal responsibility, but bringing a child to term is much more the mother’s responsibility.
If a man is having a medical procedure he can invoke the exact same right. If a man could somehow birth a child (maybe someday in the future) he could do the exact same thing.
Explain in more detail. If fraud is an issue they’ve had DNA tests for quite some time.
I hate to tell you this, but from my knowledge patient rights have pretty much always worked like this.
People can try and challenge it and press for a law suit, but legally they have little ground to stand on. The patient has a ton of leverage over their own medical procedures.
Why are we even debating this? If people’s lives are so fucked up these days that a father’s denied presence at his children’s birth - a scene so cliche it’s practically a TV trope - then let it be. Feminists get what they deserve.
Those comments gave me cancer. Are we really concerned about men being present because the woman’s naked? That’s the top comment? And yeah, childbirth is hard and it hurts. Bla bla bla.
Go out and be a fucking fire fighter.
Be a god damned soldier or policemen.
Go be an line electrician.
12 hours of childbirth per child ain’t shit compared to a lifetime of dangerous occupations, generally held by men, all to produce that lil’ child support check.
And the thanks you get? absolutely none.
You’re denied from the start. From the very beginning, she’s being handed the opportunity to screw you and your entire family future, right there in the fucking nursery.
Ridiculous. Society deserves every fucking thing it gets as a result of this sort of shitty reasoning.
:tdown:
May be OT at this point
When I had my kids, both times, the nurses treated me like I was an assailant. Comments like “oh look what he did to you” “He doesn’t care he’s just here to make a showing” etc. One pretended I wasn’t in the room ever and would tell my wife to tell me things…right in front of me. I left both times feeling guilty like I had beat her up or something.
Seriously it’s a whole different world…
I just wanted to point out (you said you worked in hospitals so it may be of no surprise) but when I went in for a consult on the big snip snip not only did I have to get a signed release form from my wife… she had to be physically present to sign papers at the time. Although I doubt she has to be in the room when they do the procedure.
Like… I have 2 kids, middle aged, and I still need a parent (wife) permission slip to manage my own body. Yay.
I don’t know the legal details, but I do know that marriage does change things when it comes to a guy getting snipped or a woman getting her tubes tied.
I don’t believe a spouse can stop someone from getting a procedure like that, but they do have a right to know about it. If I had to guess that’s what she was signing.
I have a Masters in Psychology and I’m currently in a PhD program, so most of my experience is on the therapeutic and counseling side of things. But legally speaking patient rights and laws are consistent through both medical and mental health treatment (for example, HIPAA is constant no matter what you’re seeking treatment for).
I personally think it’s bullshit that marriage affords so many additional rights when it comes to health care. But I’m also stating this from the perspective of a homosexual who has no intention of ever getting married.
Idk about getting tubes tied, but they certainly didn’t give two fucks when she had a mirana(sp?) implanted. I could only assume the same if she got her tubes tied.
FUCK BITCHES
Once again it’s not about denying biology or about trying to undermine patient rights, it’s quite simply about the fact that a child
Is treated essentially as the property of a mother to which the father barely has any true ownership over. It in essence means mothers are legally recognized as the "true"legitimate parent to which fathers are outcast…there is nothing about this arrangement that isn’t sexist or discriminatory against men and fathers.
The policy is also short sighted and preferential because if were going to use the"it’s her body so it’s her right"excuse then we should also make motions to abolish child support and implement legal paternal surrender. It’s bigoted and sexist to say"we have to respect her patient rights thus deny the father equal rights"yet at the same time say"women can legally exploit child support from men the instant their pregnant because men need to be responsible for their children." We can’t make policies based off logic we chose to ignore when it doesn’t benefit women.
Not to say this dude is getting what he deserves or anything, but I’d be surprised if this was the first red flag behavior from this broad. We all know those crazy bitches are the best fucks but wrap it up boys!