I’m gonna ban people from the game if they beat me.
Also forgot one thing:
-On training mode, make Select (PS3)/Back (XBox 360) move the character forward. Some characters like Balrog or Blanka can’t throw the dummy away from the corner.
Or just play him for a couple nights and see how “easy” he actually is.
You know what makes that fight even more sad? The fact that Fei won his round because the Chicken Wing has frame advantage!!! In HD Remix, that would have been a free Oicho every time. Not only that, but once, Fei even got a Short Flame Kick blocked and was safe. In HD Remix, you can Headbutt it back now.
That fight was made harder.
And in this fight, Kusumondo was being nice. He actually attacked. It’s almost like he knew he could still win with attacking, and decided not to bore everyone watching to death. Honestly, if Honda goes HHS crazy (like in Round 1), Cammy dies in vanilla ST. And in HD Remix, since that doesn’t work as well, Honda just needs to back himself into a corner, so he can never be crossed up, and sit there.
Yeah, it’s not as simple as sitting there and doing nothing. But it’s not much more complex either.
I hope you aren’t referring to fights against Fireball characters. Because that’s not the argument here. Understand, Honda got FOUR improvements to deal with Fireballs: 1) A better Super, 2) A Jab Headbutt that erases Fireballs, 3) A Jump Short to hit sweeps, and 4) A more steerable neutral Jumping Fierce. The game gave him FOUR NEW THINGS to aid him. YES, it isn’t easy to win with Honda because certain matches are tough, but the attempt was made to help him.
The reason the Honda bashers are complaining is because the SAME effort was NOT made to aid those that get destroyed by him. The changes made to the characters, like more recovery on DP-like moves for Fei and Cammy, actually HURT THEM in this match. More recovery on Chicken Wing HURT Fei in this match. And against these characters, YES, it is dead easy to win with Honda.
Keep in mind Honda was my first main character in ST, and I stopped using him because I hated that, unlike Hyper Fighting, I actually had a better chance of winning if I never let go of Down/Back (outside of post-knock-downs when I would go for an Oicho Tick). Everytime I did let go of Down/Back to make a fight more interesting, I would die or have a harder fight. If I sat there, I would win a lot easier. In Hyper Fighting, I had a much better array of Normal Moves and turtling didn’t afford me 6,000 options because Hand Slap didn’t go forward for free offense while maintaining my anti-air charged and I had no Stored Oichos. So it was wise for me to advance, even on characters who didn’t have Fireballs. So I DID use Honda in ST, and stopped using him because I got bored.
- James
And when he fights Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Guile?
A lot of people online on xbox hdr don’t know how to play against them, even if they’re using a character with an advantage over him.
That’s hard to quantify. Are you playing someone a thousand miles away? Countries away? Continents away?
Seems a lot of people don’t grasp the fact that trans-oceanic netplay will never be good unless we can speed light up.
I thought that in HD Remix that Fei could juggle with flame kick if he hits with chicken wing. Also, are you sure about being able to headbutt any blocked flame kick? He landed really far away when that happened.
There’s some things I would’ve changed differently with Honda, and some characters do have a disadvantage against him, but I don’t think he’s the monster that a lot of people are making him out to be. Despite his upgrades, he still has bad match-ups too.
Fair enough. I understand your point. For the most part I was referring to fireball characters. My main argument was that he’s not the ber character that everyone is bagging on. Most people are just using him as an outlet for their frustration with many of the changes and that’s not cool.
All of which are punishable, none of which really help him. At the correct range Ryu, Ken and Akuma’s sweep still takes out the jumping short. Chun will walk up and throw (or MK, MK, FB combo, or super!) Honda after the LP headbutt whereas Ken, Ryu and Akuma will walk forward and sweep – or just throw another fireball. Akuma has the red fireball that destroys the headbutt and the super. You can hit him out of his super with standing jab, and the middle hit can be punished. And most people punish the jumping fierce with a walk up sweep. It changed the game play, but it didn’t help much.
I really think Kuroppi said it best.
I still have a really tough time fighting shotos with Honda. Instead of making what are probably empty (ie. they arent going to change anything) complaints, I’m going to get better with another character. Or I’ll just deal with the fact that those matches are hard.
Also man, I’d be happy to help you get better with Cammy against Honda (it’s not hopeless.) Danimtisu has a pretty good Cammy against my Honda. You should come play with us some time and see what he does.
Again, you’re sorta missing what my argument is. My argument is that time was given to come up with four things, four attempts, to help him against Fireball characters. And the four things all vary wildly in terms of scope of change, ranging from blatant (erasing Fireballs with Jab headbutt) to the super detailed and minute (making neutral Jump Fierce more steerable).
(And while we are at it, even though they don’t help him as much as hoped, it’s still four options which gives him the ability to mix it up and be a tad less predictable. And once he gets a Super, you cannot Throw a Fireball if he’s charged anymore.)
So it’s very obvious that Honda vs. Fireball characters was a huge priority and a huge targeted problem to be solved in HD Remix. And I’m repeating myself here, apologies for that, but Fei Long gets his Chicken Wing nerfed on recovery because it’s easier to do now and the Short one goes through things. But no thought was given that, even though Honda is one of his worst matchups, that this will totally screw him over on that match. Especially because Honda has an Oicho Throw with range and Reversal ability.
And Sirlin even admitted in his blog to Hawk getting destroyed by Honda, but his solution was to “try harder.” Where is T.Hawk’s tweaked Hit Box to work better against Honda’s [insert move here]? The only character that was given something explicitly to help fight Honda was Bison, who’s Stand Jab was made better so he could hit the Headbutt easier. Bison? A character who is already arguably top tier? Who has, like, three really bad match ups in the game gets something specific for Honda… and yet Cammy, Hawk, and Fei, who die to him pathetically, don’t get anything specific for Honda and only end up getting improvements that don’t help against Honda and nerfs that actually made the fight harder?
That’s my point. It wasn’t a shocker that Honda killed these characters. We knew that since ST. Arguably, Honda was the worst match-up for all three characters. But the care wasn’t put into these characters to help them fight Honda, whereas a lot of attention and effort was made to fix Honda vs. Fireball characters. This is where my bitching comes from. Understand, I’m not predicting Hondas will dominate tournaments. I’m not saying Honda is too buff. He’s far from it. He’s easily beatable by Fireball characters. I think Ken, for example, owns his soul. It’s not game balance I am being all bitchy and whiny about. I’m complaining that there just wasn’t any effort made to make Honda less effective against these low tier characters, and the fact that the nerfs to the low tier characters make the match almost worse wasn’t taken into consideration.
It’s not hopeless. In vanilla ST, it was. And I say that even having beat a number of Hondas with Cammy at Evos and such. But in both casual and tourney environments, I’ve played against one of the better Hondas in the country for hours and could not win a single fight. In Remix, I probably could get a few wins in now. So there was definitely an improvement, I won’t argue that. But it’s still a pretty blatantly stupid match-up, as is the Fei and Hawk matches, that I don’t think were given enough attention.
- James
Eww…I hope this doesn’t turn out like SC4, where I’d spend 20 minutes being arbitrarily kicked out of every room I entered before I actually got to play a game. Only to get kicked if I had the audacity to win.
i cant belive that this video has not been posted here yet:
[media=youtube]Tn0u_b36-GY[/media]
this video my friends, shows that Honda has no honor.
and about ryu, akuma, and ken, yeah they counter Honda, is true, but you have to know how to fight, you have to acutally know how to zone honda to beat him, but the way Honda gets his Free wins from the low tier character is just by doing one single move, the headbutt, thats pretty much it. i dont see any joy in winning using Honda.
Maybe only one kick every “N” minutes? Kicks should be reserved for when they’re actually needed. =\
Did you watch your own video? Honda only did headbutt two times, one offensively and one defensively, and the defensive one cost him life. In fact, I would say that the Honda player was using an offensive zone, hardly playing defensively at all. Again, Honda beats some characters pretty badly, but this fantasy that he just holds down-back all day really is just a fantasy. Honda could lose stored ochio and maybe his jab headbutt could be weakened, but really the fault is with the balancing of the characters he beats, who weren’t made competitive enough in a whole host of matchups, not just against Honda.
LETS BAN HONDA NOW
a
and rog too while we’re at it
I say we all post links to videos of Gunze getting owned.
Here’s mine!
[media=youtube]1_FKMDDyyk8[/media]
Heh, that’s funny, I mained Cammy in ST, and picked up Honda later because I got tired of having to work so hard. 
Honda is my “wind down” character, I go to him to relax after Cammy stretches. Not because he’s overpowered (he’s not), but because his game is just less strenuous (unless he’s fighting RyuKen or Chun-Li). Give the other player some math puzzles to solve, for a change.
The only time cammy is going to beat honda consistantly is if the honda player gets sloppy quite a few times. Cammy can dizzy and kill him easily but honda has to make a serious mistake for that to happen. It’s not hopeless but so reliant on big mistakes for her to win with any kind of consistancy, and a good player just won’t let that happen.
Yeah, jchensor, ok. Honda’s a bitch. But what would anybody recommend? In that matchup, Fei vs Honda, I would recommend buffing Fei, not nerfing Honda. ie give him more options to get in, and unstore Honda’s Ochio, which is what is keeping Fei away.
No wonder my hawk ticks weren’t working I figured something was weird but dismissed and thought it’s always been like that since I started using him in hd. WOW they really fucked him up:rofl:
Everyone stop bitching about mismatches and balance problems I never heard this level of complaining when vanilla st was all the rage and +1 on the “all I care about is networking issues/bugs being fixed”.