Spaced right, you can punish 5A with Kuma’s 5B (heck, slightly further out and you can punish her other stuff with it on reaction). Kuma also has more, better tools at mid and far range. In other words, he works better at multiple ranges than Mitsuru. More importantly, he can get in and out of those ranges faster than Mitsuru. Also, you have to factor in the fact that Kuma is better at converting stray hits into damage (5A at max range will still lead to auto combo. j.A hitting at any angle whatsoever will lead to 1200 - 2000 damage).
If you’re whiffing 5A outside of 5A range and Kuma calls you out on that bullshit with 5B then you deserve to get hit, it’s just footsies.
Your 2AB also has a retarded hurtbox that allows you to get under that anyways and net you a combo similar to his jA, unless you’re in the corner which you can then go for a 5-6k combo.
You’re really just saying problems that almost all characters have facing Kuma but Mitsuru is pretty well equipped with answers compared to a good chunk of the cast. I’m sure it’s one of Mitsuru’s harder match ups but I wouldn’t call it worse than 5-5.
God forbid a Mitsuru that has to respect and adjust their play style for a harder match up like the majority of the cast when fighting her.
I…I don’t even…
Me calling Teddie having an advantage over Mitsuru isn’t just my own opinion. Alot of other folks have expressed this opinion as well.
If Teddie punishes her 5A with a 5B, he’s safe on block since it pushes her out. Her only punish is 2AB, and that’s only at certain ranges (within Teddie’s 5A range), outside that, she flies above. If she tries to block after a blocked 5A, within Teddie’s 5A range, then she’s eating a combo. Her options on block then are either to try to punish with 5A (which is unsafe if she’s blocked) or to continue the string and go for a mixup. In that case, Teddie can just defend and wait it out because at the end of it, he’s in the ideal 5B range.
Other notes, Droit is punishable on IB with 2A, 2A2A is also punishable, Bear Screw goes past Bufudyne, 2D Teddie can be used to avoid 5A and punish with his own 5A, j.B can beat out her 2B.
Oh my god post of the year
I can see a good Youskue bopping a good Mitsuru.
I personally think Youskue has more tools.
Tenrafoo, Sukajaka, his grab deals posion, Moonsault or Knife Throw, Garudyne, His DP, Movement, doesn’t have to charge like Mitsuru.
Also, 1000DollaSocks, what mixup does Mitsuru really have?
…and is way more squishy and deals less damage.
5A > yosuke. 5A > almost every tool in the game.
sweep throw, instant overhead with meter or icewall, fast crossup, throw/jC. jump in high/low/throw
i mean like seriously
Hey, I never said “better tools”, just more.
Ratio:Sweep feint grab should be teched all the time.
Overhead Jump B is pretty good.
I don’t think her crossup beats Youskue’s crossups.
and risk getting blown away if Mitsuru decided to [4b] instead of grab?
But I bet Yosuke can do that too huh? convert even the most trivial of mistakes into super high damage
I’m now confused.
Never did I state that Yoskue was a better character, or had better buttons, or tools.
What I DID state was that I believe that Youskue could be a bad matchup for Mitsuru and he has more ways to open you up than Mitsuru.
I’m sorry, I honestly cannot remember the throw window in this game, 15 frames?
I really have never had a problem with mixup grabs in this game.
Grabs out of nowhere, sure, but if you already know Mitsuru’s mixup, which a lot of people do now, grab is probably the lowest used choice of Mitsuru players in that mixup.
Can a Mitsuru tell me how often they use the grab of the mixup in a set?
Yeah, I mean, Yosuke has pretty much all the same tools.
A DP that can’t be crossed up
Damage consistently around 3k, peaking at above 6k for counter hits
Ways to bait DPs, backdashes and jump outs while continuing pressure without making a read
Knockdown or pressure from pretty much any hit
big tits
pretty much the same character actually I don’t know why they’re both in the game
And if you’re “Having no trouble with [dealing with throw mix up]” whoever you’re playing against sucks dick. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but grab is sub-reactable timing. Unless you are a greek god. And yet, even the best japanese players crumble to simple, structural grab mix up… so I doubt you are.
I never said that Mitsuru’s mixup options aren’t good, I just said that Youskue has more ways to open you up.
Man, these last few posts have so much sardoniscism (and kind of go off topic) seeping through it’s unpleasant to discuss anything here.
I just said that in her sweep feint grab mixup, I don’t feel her “grab” is amazingly strong.
So, can we start this again?
How about going back to what started it all?
The Yous. V. Mits matchup.
How do you all feel about it?
In the sweep feint grab/4B mix up, grab is amazingly strong functioning as the other half of the 50/50
Yousuke V Mitsuru would surprise me to be anything past even, I sincerely doubt he beats her. Perhaps a Yousuke that was so technically refined he could be in correct position to air glide over coup-droit and 2B could give her a problem in that regard, but even then her counter hit air grab is massive damage and covers that option well.
Every time Yousuke gets a solid hit it goes back to neutral. Every time Mitsuru gets a solid hit it’s probably one 50/50 away from death.
Mitsuru DP effectively mitigates Yousuke’s cross up game, forces him to bait much harder than most matchups
Mitsuru 5A breaks yous’ persona at 5C/2C range, makes it weird for him to footsie. Can also break 5D/jD, and so can coup.
I dunno, it’s hard for me to understand why this would be Yousuke’s favor.
And I’m sorry for the biting tone, it’s just hard for me to believe you are commenting on the matchup but don’t believe Mitsuru uses grab very often, and comments like “sweep feint grab should be teched all the time” make me cringe
[media=youtube]MR3XSQK3F58[/media]
At 3:00
I can see how he can be annoying.
[media=youtube]qp0nhuBLSkA[/media]
27:20
It seems like Mitsuru needs to kind of sit back more in this one, which she can do just fine, still.
[media=youtube]VWa4DhjGD3M[/media]
And I’ll admit that I shouldn’t have said “All the time”, but I’ve watched a fair share of Mitsurus, and they just don’t go for it that often.
Ah, I also forgot… his DP has no failsafe, whereas Mitsuru’s failsafe means any time he blocks a DP he either has to hard call out no follow/follow for damage or take something like a 1.5k punish. In the event he is trying to read followup super, a wrong guess is counter hit bufu-dyne, which breaks a card since he pressed 2C and does like 4k (If properly combo’d I think it’s actually more, I don’t remember proper numbers on CH)
I would expect the reasoning Mitsurus aren’t going for it all the time is because mid screen the reward is low. In the corner though, her grab mix up is the end of the world.
Literally, the first piece of advice I give to people against mitsuru is do not even attempt to tech the grab mid screen. Just let it hit you. It’s fine, you take like 1.2 and you’re out. Don’t tech it.
So what Mitsuru does in the corner is like… one or two high low mix on mirror in the corner, and then a grab/trap mix up afterwards. It’s so impossible to get out of, like most strong knockdowns in the corner in this game.
Doesn’t Mitsuru’s sweep feint grab mixup lose to Youskue’s DP?
Things that Mitsuru denies:
Moonsault pressure via her dp
j.d, 5d via ja, 5a/dtroit/mirror
Things that Yosuke denies:
5a stagger via sweep under (1.3k dmg, so strong)
Pressure via his dp, baitable
Mitsuru HP > Yosuke HP
Mitsuru DMG >>> Yosuke DMG
I guess If Yosuke can break every throw, then it’ll open her up real quick and Mits vs Yosu 6-4 easily becomes 4-6
Not when you’re in Moonsault
No. [4b] charge time is longer than Yosuke’s DP. Risk vs Reward isn’t worth it
It’s worth noting though that his DP actually functions in that scenario. A lot of DPs just whiff, like Akihiko.
The situation I had in mind was Yosuke immidiately replying with r.action right after sweep feint. Besides, I think Mitsurus will just stop charging immidiately when they see that the opponent does nothing.
I still believe this is 4-6 on neutral or momentum is on Yosuke, 3.5-6.5 when momentum is on Mitsuru
the matchup looks even to me but its more ridiculous that anyone would compare a strong midrange character with insanely high damage with mediocre mobility to a hit and run character with little to no oki and insane mobility.
they are nothing alike.