Make guile a shoto character style. Seriously being a charge character in itself is a handicap/disadvantage.
There’s no real advantage in being a charge character over a character with no charge moves- Moves take longer to execute, can’t be used instantly, you either have to move back or stop moving completely to use the move or charge during a string where a shoto can just throw out the move instantaneously.
The other thing is that none of this is compensated by having slightly better properties on the moves. Seriously a sonic boom has no better properties than an easier to execute hadoken/tiger shot etc or a flash kick taking longer to execute and still being even shitter than a shoryuken or other AAs like cannon spike.
eh? Charge characters play completely differently and that’s the whole thing with it. Guile’s style is somewhat dictated by having to find charge and use it effectively.
As for this malarkey about the sb not having any kind of advantage over fb… have you never played Guile? He’s top tier for projectile recovery and speed control. I would also say that sb is as easy to execute - you just can’t throw them out whenever you like.
Yes I have played guile and his boom is no better than ryu’s hadoken or sagats tiger shots etc. All the good properties of the move which are only very slightly better ones are all negated by the fact that you have to charge to throw one out. His EX sonic boom is pretty good though, i’m happy with the EX sonic boom.
I know there’s such a thing as different playstyles but like I said, comparatively speaking, there is no advantage of having to charge a move over being able to throw it out instantly for either similar or shitter results. The charge input alone makes moves from great to mediocre at best.
His recovery is negligible, he loses out in all fireball fights despite the recovery due to the charge input. The recovery is more applicable in combos and vsing guys who don’t have projectiles. It’s still not that great as a zoning tool in comparison to others because of the charge input alone, sure the move has ok properties but the fact that its a charged input really makes the move a lot less applicable.
Comparatively speaking despite the recovery, I can still throw out 2 fireballs before you even start your second boom, either that or you’ll JUST make it using the precharged method. Hell he’ll struggle in a fireball war against ken or sakura and their hadoken is considered the worse out of the shotos.
In the end, being a charged character is just a handicap I feel, fundamentally speaking a charge character can’t even make great use of the universal mechanics of the game, that being the focus attack system. Input requirements of a moveset alone can determine how good a character is which is why guile is considered mid tier, the input alone brings his position down a bit as well as minor other nitty gritty stuff like move properties, priority etc. Imagine Sagat for example if he became a charged character, that alone will bring his tier down, by a fair bit too. Or even change his tiger knee to the original input it was in SF2 like fei long’s chicken wing, that’ll slightly bring down his character too. Just fundamentally speaking, having to charge to do moves is a disadvantage over being able to throw it out instantaneously, it’s that simple.
Just saying we should be a little more compensated by the fact that we have to have a 2 second delay before we can throw out our moves. Flash kick having a slower input execution and still being shitter than most AA to me doesn’t make sense.
You pretty much listed all the reasons I love to use Guile right there, only I don’t view them as negatives; they are challenges. awesome. Frustrating trickery is the strategy. Not a head to head firefight. Hiding charge, pre-charge, pretending charge to sneak in. This is cunning, aka guile aka Guile.
What if lk flask kick sent people flying a little bit higher when the opp is grounded, and/or had faster recovery, allowing just enough time to juggle ultra. There also needs to be a reward for fk>fadc on hit. Maybe allow air throw to activate earlier in the jump and give it juggling properties after fk so u can actually fk>fadc, air throw.
Your 2nd suggestion isn’t radical at all. I think that’s a perfectly reasonable change.
The first suggestion though wouldn’t be as useful as you think. Most Guile players use cr. forward as an offensive poke, meaning you move forward and poke with it, so you definitely won’t have the charge to cancel into SB or FK.
I kind of wish his overhead was a little faster. A lot of my opponents can block it on reaction now.
Give him an SNK style command roll with some startup invincibility (either :3p: or :3k:) and a slide (:db::hk:) that went under fireballs. He would pretty much win every fireball war for free, plus having more ways to move forward while still maintaining a charge is always fun. Hell, why not a short hop why we’re at it. Hop whatever, c.lk, c.lp, c.mp XX lp boom into another short hop would be fun as shit.
I suggested that on the SSF4 thread, people had mixed opinions. Mostly, people were afraid they’d boom when they didn’t want to. To them, I would recommend they learn to how use their controlling device.
Otherwise, I think it’s a cool idea haha. It would certainly help his pressure game.
Forget about Forward then Back + P mistake booms. I sometimes mistakingly boom when I’m retreating and then want to do a spinning back fist. lol. But I concur, people need to have a better control of their stick! (I love the fact that you said ‘controlling device’. But I guess this is to encompass the people who use pad)
lol… actually, combo breakers would be an interesting universal mechanic in SF. Mind you, it would be fairly limited, since combos aren’t usually long. Though, one could say that it’s similar to alpha counters… except that for the alpha counter, you’re blocking and not getting your ass whupped.
The C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!! would only be applicable to non-super/ultra comboes… i.e. poke strings/normal combos, and if you’re getting your ass handed to you while you’re grounded (i.e. no air combo breakers…). Oh, -1 (2?) bar for usage. And… all combo breakers do the same damage and cannot be FADCed out of (so there’s none of this CB --> FADC --> Ultra BS…)
Naturally, each character would have their own unique combo breaker… perhaps the same move as their armour breaking move. Though, this would be quite easy to perform since some people have QCF/DP motion AB movies. Also, not very good for Gief since he has no AB move (iirc) (he’s going to be special, he gets a SPD combo breaker… lol).
Take THAT stupid shoto strings…
If this get implemented, I don’t think people are going to be very inclined to use long combos anymore. Street Fighter Instinct ftw.