Roll are very vulnerable after the roll completes cause it takes so long. accually, I depening on my char I have stopped using rolls for the most part, and have stuck with spot dodging and shielding. I see why Meta knight and snake are top tier, but by no means are they unstoppable, metaknight is tricky but if you get underneath him, he is in trouble, unless he does down B with can be baited, and snake, he is trickier but ZSS seems to do a pretty good job of staying out of his forward tilt range while throwing out alot of punishment, plus he is one of the easier characters in the game to juggle, he is top tier but whenever I hear god tier, I think that ppl forget the meaning of that word.
Melee was just as bad as matchups as brawl is, case and point fox vs bowser, yeah thats proably like 8:2 matchup, you really can’t do shit once fox hits one shine, and just waveshines you, and not even including that I only remeber seeing a few chars at melee tournies lets think, Falco, Fox, Cpt Falcon, Sheik, Marth, Samus, and for the most part that was what you saw I might be missing someone at brawl tournies you see a larger cast getting far, even though right now a million ppl have replaced falco and fox, with Meta knight and snake, which if you remember made up most of tourneys in melee.
^No, that’s opinion, and it should be recognized that a large amount of people have the opinion that Brawl is as just as good of game. I don’t play Ness, I play fucking Ganondorf…but I’ve still faced good players and beat them or did fairly well. This games entire cast that is on the lower end of the tier list has amazing potential, and good tools to boot. Do they have as good of tools as Snake and Metaknight, or as many? Hell no, but I’ve explored every character on the lower end of the tier list and after using every one I have to say “they’re not that bad.” In Melee the low tiers had almost nothing against Fox, Falco, Marth etc. The only way a few characters could gain an advantage was if the players had crazy technical skill. I’d rather play Metaknight with Ganon than Fox with Ness.
not true…most of the low tier characters in melee dont need technical skill they need mindgames…i dont know why you guys always say technical skill…melee is not all about techinical skill, m2k can probably whoop your ass without l cancel.
Most low tier char. had no technical techniques or anything in the first place, that’s why they were low tier. I don’t see how char. like roy or gaw can be using technical skill, when they didn’t have any.
Its pitiful… absolutely pitiful… how little some of you defending ‘pros’ and ‘melee’ and sometimes ‘melee pros’ actually know. Most of you have shown clear representation that you dont even know what the phrase ‘technical skill’ means.
Christ on a cracker, is it ever embarrassing to be a new part of this community sometimes.
I like brawl better than melee. Its just superior in so many ways. I hated the advance techs in melee. And I hate how the smash community thinks advanc techs is what makes a fighting game good, deep, or competitive.
It shouldn’t be all about manual dexterity and canned responses. Which I thought was what melee degenerated into. Yes, its good to have more options in fighting games. Options opens up more strategy. And that’s what advanc techs are suppose to bring. But in melee advance techs just meant everyone had to use it; it actually closed up options. Instead of being a versatile game with tons of different playstyles for each character, everyone learned the same strategy/advance tech because, let’s face it, it was the best way to play. I really disliked the cookie cutter playstyle in melee.
Melee basically, in my opinion, became a button-fest. I am not saying there is no skill in manual dexterity and being able to do all that stuff. But it shouldn’t be the only skill involved. Its just too bad that the improvisational nature of the game had to be sacrificed for the canned moves that were developed.
I was really disappointed to see the mad-dash to find glitches in brawl in order to claim “advanced techs” when brawl first came out. How about learning how to use the core moves at a deeper level by learning the timing/situation of the moves than trying to find glitches to increase the repetoire of movies. Brawl is made well enough where there is that deeper level if you just look for it. Why can’t people try to think vertically instead of horizontally. It just seems like it was going back to the melee type gameplay. I am glad brawl has less of these glitches than brawl.
The character in brawl right now that will probably degenerate into that kind of gameplay is meta knight. You can do pretty well by just using the same responses and strategy. It really doesn’t open the character up for exploration.
No one is saying that you need to learn all the advance techs…you can just learn how to L cancel its not even that hard i dont know why you complain so much, in Melee you have mindgames just like in brawl… the fact that pros can probably beat you with any character means that they have better knowledge of the game and that will happen in brawl too its just that the match its going to be way more boring :D…manual dexterity??? i mean do you really know what youre talking about??? Mindgames>Techskill just like in every game, theres a reason why pcs falco is better than silentwolfs falco…Melee its not all about techskill i think you guys couldnt even handle how hardcore it was and thats why you guys want brawl in evo.
Ok, if you really want to go down this failure of a route let’s look at reality.
Melee is an stripped down game that only people who actually like Smash Brothers enjoys watching. Just because the game is fast and has a higher need for technical skill does not automatically make it a better game. Yes it has mindgames and the better players do in fact win, but to try and make it sound like tech skill in that game isn’t a huge deal is ridiculous. Just like at the mad scramble for “ADVANCED TECHS” to make brawl a “better” game.
Also you think Melee is hardcore? Get the hell out of here, if you want a real example of hardcore go take a look at the Marvel vs Capcom2 community. Those people not only out perform melee in technical skill, speed, and yomi… they also throw down big money.
It’s shitty players like you who make going to tournaments a mixed blessing. On one hand I get to destroy your ego, on the other I have to actually listen to inane crap like this. I swear the only way to get scrubs like you to listen is to beat you into submission. Once someone who you have to acknowledge is better than you makes a claim, suddenly your ears open up and you actually consider what they have to say.
I’m going to preface this by saying that I like brawl and melee equally.
Once you got past the tech barrier in melee, there were way more options at any given time for any given character and mindgames were a huge deal just like brawl. Perhaps even more so because prediction was more important. You should also know that once you learn to DI and smash DI, even when you were getting combo’d you had options and the ability to force the opponent to follow you on split-second reaction. Often times you could actually get out of whatever attack they had planned to kill you and live to fight another day.
To the poster above, dark crono has a point with his silentwolf vs pcchris thing. silentwolf is way more technical, but pc would beat him probably almost every time. Once you learn the basics (L-cancelling, wavedashing) you have all the tools you need to beat your opponent. Most everything else is built into the non-advanced game and is easily accessible but not always easily visible.
what exactly makes melee stripped down? the fact that no items were on? it’s the community’s preference, I don’t have fun watching CVS2 so I mostly stick to smash. to each their own. I can almost guarantee you that more people would enjoy watching melee over brawl, and next to MVC2 how many other communities run multiple nationals a year with 200+ attendants?
lol i play marvel and soul calibur and tekken >.> …so why the hell they complain so much about advance techs??? saying that they made melee a bad game… advance techs are in every fighter game…marvel has advance techs…tekken and soul calibur too…
Im complaining cause most of the reasons people here are giving is that fox makes melee a bad game and that they hate melee`s advance techs, and with that saying that brawl is a better game, dont you think thats stupid???..oh and the other huge reason is that pros want to keep winning in melee and thats why they dont want melee in evo
I assume english is not your first language. I don’t see your point. I think brawl is superior because it promotes, in my opinion, a better way of playing the game.
I agree that melee can be played at a deeper level with mind games. And mindgames have no upper limit, so it will ultimately beat out techs.
What I am saying is that, I think most melee players are more preoccupied with the techs than the mind games. One of the reason for this preoccupation is that techs in melee were too overwhelming not to use it. Sure you can be an incredibly good mind game player, but knowing the techs made up for a lot of the mind game short-comings.
I would rather people rely on mind games rather than tech. I felt that melee didn’t do a good job to encourage that.
nah its spanish :D…Why it promotes a better way? I`ve always seen on smashboards that Mindgames>Techskills…i think that it gives you more ways of playing the game, cause you can be extremly technical or just be amazingly good at predicting your opponent. I think that what makes melee such a good game its that you have to combine those two ways to actually be really good at the game.
Dont you think the same would happen if capcom releases a MvC3 and its just not as technical as the first one?
What? Many low tiered characters in melee had crazy techniques to work with. Ness had shit loads of potential. Hell, he still hasn’t been fully explored in Melee yet. Yoyo glitch, double jump cancels, PK thunder trix. Yoshi, Mewtwo, and G&W had techniques to work with. That didn’t change the fact though, that they all only maybe had one tiny thing that could be used against characters like Fox and Marth. Bum showed just how much technical skill could be applied to characters like DK, but it still takes so much skill for a DK to overcome a good Fox. I really think that the tiers and balance are better in Brawl than Melee.
So are you saying that the massive number of SWF scrubs (not all are) make up for the fact that melee had many years to develop?
I don’t really care about the second question since it doesn’t pertain to me. My only point was that downplaying the tech skill needed in melee to prove a point fails.
