Really need to disable aero.
See now, if we all got together and stood behind HDR instead of crying very hard about it’s drawbacks, Capcom might have considered giving us the patch treatment and maybe old backgrounds etc.
Instead we became a hostile fan base that Capcom has apparently abandoned and rightly so.
So now if I want to play sf2 I have two choices, HDR which uses modern consoles that are all over the place, or ST arcade which is only acceptable on DC or arcade board. If I ever run anything in my neck of the woods, guess which version I’m going to use?
Shit I’ll buy another copy of HDR to get the above fixes plus speed changed and input delay taken out.
BTW I’m not shitting on you milesokeefe or anyone specifically. Personally, I’m guilty of hopping on the “let’s hate HDR and nominate SIRLIN for ST antichrist” train but I recognize that strategically it was a bad idea.
I really want to play ST on a regular basis offline but now I can’t. Online is shit and doesn’t cut it.
I must be the only guy on GGPO who doesn’t get input delay from Aero (Ultracombo also said he noticed no difference) and I do a lot of hard shit like J. HK linked into double flash in both GGPO and HDR and notice no significant differences…shrug
I do notice HDR is a bit faster, but that’s it, as far as delay it feels the same.
People need better PC’s, I don’t see how the aero service could cause any kind of input delay with DirectInput.
Pasky, you don’t feel that there’s significant input lag with the FBA emulator (and on Win7, no less)? I’ve always felt that the consoles are preferable to GGPO in terms of input delay, but papasi’s empirical results seem to call that into question. I’m on WinXP by the way, with 1ms USB polling rate. Could be my LCD monitor is laggy, for all I know…
No I can notice the difference in input delay between mame and FBA. FBA is a terrible emulator for netplay because it has an inherent 1 frame of input delay even offline. Mame (.145) is hella smooth for me. I don’t really feel a difference between FBA and HDR.
I definitely don’t buy that Windows XP has 6 frames of delay and Win 7 has 8 frames, sounds like someone has a shitty USB controller or just doesn’t know how to test input delay properly, because 8 frames is extremely noticeable.
I think it’s total delay, not the amount of delay you must add to ST’s natural delay of 4 frames.
8 frames total minus 4 frames the source material naturally had would be 4 frames additional delay. But I think it’d still be really noticeable, especially considering how enormous just 1-2 frames of delay differential felt to me playing on PS3 compared to 360.
Now, I’ve been using a HDMI->VGA adapter to hook my PS3 up to my VGA monitor. I have no idea whether this configuration is any laggier than the VGA cable I use for my 360 or not, but warrant it could be adding a bit of display lag to my PS3 experience above and beyond the 1-2 frame difference.
I was using a HRAP VX SA during my GGPO adventures.
I meant USB chipset controller…not the actual controller. Guess I should have specified.
Granted, I’m without any empirical evidence so it may just be in my head.
But turning off Aero last night, I noted a marked improvement in my execution. I was not dropping nearly as many combos/inputs.
FYI I am running off of a PC I just built:
i-7 2600k @ 3.4Ghz, quad-core
16GB memory
Geforce GTX 560 Ti w/ 2GB VRAM
Intel 520 series 60GB SSD
I also am not quite sure why this would occur. It doesn’t make technical sense to me. If anybody has a procedure for testing, or the specs of the machine the input lag statistics were determined upon, I’d be interested in knowing.
A bit of research brings up a possibly-related issue from SC2: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2456907383. Of course, this could merely be coincidence.
JED07
We did ask for another patch and expressed why it was needed on Unity.
All Sven said was, “there are no more patches planned at this time”
That was like 2 years ago.
True, I remember something like that back then now that you mention it.
I guess either way Capcom is going to focus on the game that brings in the bigger bag of $$$.
So either way it didn’t matter what our smaller community did.
Even if they did patch the game, realistically, that probably wouldn’t be enough to help revive the game even if it soldered the HDR and ST communities together.
A little thread necro… my method will give lag times that are, on average, about 1/2 a frame lower than the camera/LED method that, for example, NKI used.
CPS-2 Green Turbo 1,2 and 3: 2-3 frames. Average 2.5 frames. (3 frames NKI equivalent)
Xbox360 Turbo 0, PS360 PCB: 4.2-5.4 frames. Average 4.8 frames (5.3 frames NKI equivalent)
Xbox360 Turbo 2 PS360 PCB: 3.5-5.8 frames. Average 4.7 frames (5.2 frames NKI equivalent)
Xbox360 Turbo 4 PS360 PCB: 3.3-5.4 frames. Average 4.5 frames (5 frames NKI equivalent)
PS3 Turbo 0, PS360 PCB: 5.2-6.3 frames. Average 5.7 frames (6.2 frames NKI equivalent)
PS3 Turbo 3, PS360 PCB: 4.3-6.2 frames. Average 5.3 frames (5.8 frames NKI equivalent)
PS3 Turbo 4, PS360 PCB: 4.1-6.2 frames. Average 5.3 frames (5.8 frames NKI equivalent)
did u test GGPO?
Also FBA with sound disabled gives -2 frames of delay, so probably its very close to arcade
Emulators are on the todo list, along with CCC2 and Dreamcast.
Got some Dreamcast testing in.
All testing with MC Cthulu 2.5.4 1ms firmware.
Dreamcast Turbo 0: 4-5 frames of lag. 4.5 average - 5 f NKI equivalent
Dreamcast Turbo 1: 3-5 frames of lag, 4.2 average
Dreamcast Turbo 2: 3-5 frames of lag, 4.2 average
Dreamcast Turbo 3: 3-5 frames of lag, 4.1 average.
Dreamcast Turbo 4: 3-5 frames of lag, 4.1 average.
Dreamcast Turbo 5: 3-5 frames of lag, 3.9 average.
Dreamcast Turbo 6: 3-4 frames of lag, 3.5 average.
Also, Dreamcast turbo settings are faster than HDR turbo settings.
So basically the Dreamcast version, which was the tournament standard for ST for years, has the same amount of input lag as HDR on the 360, yet somehow HDR or HDR Classic mode (by far the easiest way to set up ST at tournaments adding no additional space/equipment requiments) isn’t considered a viable option by a select, vocal few. While at the same time 99% of people playing ST/HDR are doing it on either consoles or on laggy emulators (with wack speed settings). It’s very clear to me why our favorite game/s are quickly becoming more and more niche. It’s the only one where you can’t play and practice your game under the same conditions, with the same stick/controller, on the same equipment as you will see at a tourney.
The set-up can add significant lag. I expect that using the “Evo Monitor” and a MadCatz SE/TE stick instead of a CRT and a PS360 will add significant lag. FWIW, going from a good supergun to PS3 HDR is pretty jarring.
Dreamcast Frame Skip (short samples…)
Appears to be patterns of 32 in-game frames. The numbers are visible consecutive frames between skipped frames.
Turbo 6: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1…
Turbo 5: 2,2,1 (repeat)
Turbo 4: 3,3,2,3,2,3,2,3,2 (repeat)
Turbo 3: 3,3,3,3,3,3,.
Turbo 2: 4,4,3,4,3,4,3 (repeat)
Turbo 1:4,4,5 (repeat)
Turbo 0: No skip
Turbo settings correspond to 0,6,7,8,9,12, and 16 skipped frames per 32 visible frames.
Turbo 0 - 100% speed
Turbo 1 - 123% speed - approximately HDR turbo 2.
Turbo 2 - 128% speed - approximately HDR turbo 4.
Turbo 3 - 133% speed
Turbo 4 - 139% speed
Turbo 5 - 160% speed
Turbo 6 - 200% speed
Rufus: It’s great that you’re providing more quantitative results for input lag but is there any reason why the official DC controller or stick wasn’t tested instead? I’d feel a lot more confident with results using that that than with the unofficial MC Cthulhu setup.
Anyway, I’m not sure what “approximately” means but HDR speeds aren’t equivalent to DC speeds at any level except Turbo 0. My DC-HDR timeline in the first post has the details and were based on side-by-side comparison of the ending time of rounds. Based on that, DC T1 should be closer to HDR T3 speed. Feel free to use the same test and see for yourself.
HDR on Dreamcast, you mean the port of ST? I thought at the time that had been documented as a flawed conversion, although nowhere near as bad as the oddball Saturn rev found on the collection with Zero2’?
What about running Anniversary Edition on the old Xbox, choosing purely ST chars? HDR on 360 is something else entirely… just look at the Sagat juggles :wasted:
I would happily pay $25 right now for a pure and simple arcade port of Super Turbo to play (with acceptable network and lobby options) over Xbox Live.
In terms of game frames/shown frames
The speeds on the DC are 32/x (32/32, 32/26, 32/25, 32/24, 32/23, 32/20, and 32/16 for turbo 0-6)
On HDR it’s x/32 (32/32, 38/32, 39/32, 40/32, and 41/32 for turbo 0-4)
These are relative to turbo 0 based on the differemces in frame skip.
I used the mc cthulu because it was easier for wiring than the DC pad.