Honestly if there was no revenge gauge and you could only build EX by getting hit (or it built faster than by hitting them) that would be far less grievous than the current situation. Sure you get a safe DP out of it but at least you can’t tack massive damage onto that safe DP.
Why? The actual game doesn’t mean shit when I’m talking about options.
Thank you.
And to further the comparison, imagine a time before FPS games had such extensive options. Can you imagine if the community reacted to the advent of game-altering options the way we’ve seen here? People complaining about how removing radars will “split the community” and “cause debates” and hurt tourny turnouts? Only to see years later it doesn’t change much of anything, except giving people the option to play how they want.
This is sounding like the Public Option debate. :wonder:
It seems their more pressing matter that must be handle before the community can handle such a question.
But personally I just find myself if I’m not in favor of some mechanics of the game and if the mechanic cant be alter and the scenes that host events of that game don’t intent to modify them. Than I usually leave that scene alone and move on to something I can appreciate.
I thought landing a combo was a comeback mechanic.
Bingo. And this is why fighting games are much more niche than other genres. Adding options would split the community? How about lack of options limit the community. Thanks, Keo.
And by the way, while you guys are worried about splitting communities - you don’t seem too concerned with people who don’t like the Ultra Meter at all. You’re not worried about the community splitting then, so long as you have your game. Everybody else can fuck off, right? Hypocrisy.
you really don’t get it do you
Explain it, I’ll all monitor.
Disagree. That would be like increasing your opponent:s hitbox every time you get hit. Ultras don’t make it easier to hit, it’s just another option. Whether Ryu’s ability to ultra after dp is overpowered or not is another question.
Concur. The essence of Ultra is no problem its how some ultra are handle that is the problem. But as you said that’s another subject altogether which is again why i say it needs to be handle on base by base scenario, or to be appropriate to to say case by case.
Regardless I say what I wanted to say an I’m content now. Ive already come to terms with back up mechanics and accept them willy till proven guilty of ruin competitive integrity.
With that I say good day.
Then play a fighter that doesn’t have any super meter.
There are some ways to incorporate supers so they don’t reward winning or losing and are balanced
- Start round with full meter, no way to regain it.
- Gradually autofills at same rate
You could try and put the “AOF/KOF style hold buttons to charge it” option on here, but that actually rewards the winner. He is the one who will actually have more time to use it.
Having meter is actually important to the economics of a fighting game. Being able to exchange a resource for an advantage is crucial to critical decision making. You cannot spam out certain moves because they require a resource you are limited on.
Being able to have control over replenishing that resource is also crucial because it rewards players who know how to do so efficiently.
The EX/Super meter in SFIV is very well thought out in this regards. You also gain small amounts of meter for playing mind games, and knowing when it is safe to whiff certain specials is crucial. You can spend time collecting meter while manipulating your spacing to get where you need to be to win.
The Revenge meter is not. Your only control over it is in taking damage, and its only pay off is massive damage. Badly designed.
Teching throws and blocking with Focus Attacks should fill it, and Ultras should not just be large highly damaging Supers. No Ultra should exceed 25% damage on an average 1000 health opponent, and it shouldn’t be the only option for using the meter.
Focus fills Ultra as well.
Fair enough. It is more like allowing players to say as they are about to take a shot “ULTRA” once for every three baskets their opponent scores, and if it sinks it is 10 points.
Kind of what I meant but I can see how the implication was missed
Thank you. I had a feeling it did, was pretty sure of it. But remember a post earlier where someone implied it didn’t. So does chip damage
FA fills it because you take damage initially, then recover I believe. Any way you take damage fills meter. If you get hit before you recover the health after a FA, you lose the health you would have gained back.
You need some non-damaging means to gain Revenge. Tech Hits seems to be a no-brainer. FA and Teching both require skill and thus the Revenge meter does in that way reward skill (and thus should also reward throw teching). It would be allot fairer if the most you could gain for ultra off of just getting beat down is that half fill mark when you are around 25% health, and give meter for throw teching and increase what is gained for FA to fill the rest on an average round.
Again, real life sports vs something meant to be played by millions despite physical ability. Capcom was more than clear as to why the Revenge system was added in the first place. Hell, just think about the original name “Revenge”. It’s meant to be a get-back of some sort.
But hilariously enough, a group of kids do have the option of playing a real life basketball game with rules like, “The losing team gets step out of bounds” or something just as wacky. Officials basketball rules have always been guidelines in casual play.
so uh in response to the OP
I think comeback mechanics make sense, but it shouldn’t be an auto-combo like it is now. Best comeback system in a game ever = Mark of the Wolves’ combo system. You get one meter, two stocks. One stock you can do a S power super that hurts pretty bad. Two stocks you can do P power supers that hurt real bad… except almost everyone can combo two S supers together in the right situations. Almost everyone has a 75%+ combo in that game, except they are hard to do and you need to manage your meter properly so you can have that nuclear option available to you.
Of course there are a few characters who build meter too easily (Kevin and Gato) but even still… in that game, getting caught in a huge death combo off a midscreen C isn’t quite as frustrating because you know the other guy has to really know what he’s doing to maximize his damage off that single attack. In SF4 though, shoryuken FADC ultra does far too much damage and is the most anti-hype way to win a match of all time.
IMO people are more likely to complain about a 50% combo that is easy as hell to do as compared to one that involves a bunch of move inputs and constant corrections to make sure the other guy is getting juggled properly, etc.
edit: oh yeah, in MOTW you need to manage your meter properly from the get go. Getting your ultra meter filled for you isn’t the best idea… especially when it is working independently of your EX moves. There needs to be a tradeoff somewhere. You can either do the biggest combo possible every time, or you can save your meter for when you really need it.
Disagree. There are no 50 point combos in basketball. :d
On a more serious note, people make mistakes. Granted, these mistakes become smaller and rarer at higher levels, but these mistakes still exist. Games where a single mistake can/does lead to an inevitable lost create very long lame duck situations. Being that forfeiting seems to be a taboo in many tourney scenes and even if that wasn’t the case, games where the majority of the matches are played only 10 percent through are undesirable in my opinion, I can see the desire or need for comeback mechanics.
To stay in your analogy, Im not saying that the losing teams next goal should be worth 50 points or anything drastic. More like littler things like the losing team gets an extra time out after half time. You know, something that hopefully is versatile enough grant options, good enough to give the losing side a chance to comeback, but not too good that foolish use of the said thing can not be baited and punished.
that MotW thing doesn’t really sound like a comeback mechanic, since you can do that when you’re winning, too.
although in sf4 if you get hit with an ultra, then you have your own ultra to tag them back with, no? and it’s not like you’re not getting hit either, so you’re building your own as well. aside from DP fadc ultra (which can usually be avoided by respecting their meters, but sometimes i guess they can get lucky) getting ultra’d is because you messed up.
bars change the dynamic of the match, and they need to be respected when they’re full. it’s like complaining that you can’t throw fireballs on ST chun li with full bar. the reason they’re getting the bar is kinda cheesy but people are overblowing the effect.
you are right, but the winning character in SF4 can still do a FADC ultra whenever they need to in the second half of the round… unless its a real ass kicking, in which case the other guy’s ultra probably won’t help much.
If you get super meter for getting hit, then it can work as a comeback mechanic too… especially if you set it up so you get some meter for blocked attacks, a bit more meter for landed attacks but the most meter for getting hit. IMO having it all working off the same meter so people can use it as their comeback or use it to seal away a match is the best way to do it.
some people seem fine with the notion that either it’s a blowout and their ultra won’t really change anything, or it’s tight so you both have that meter and it’s fair (which sounds like where you stand?). other people think the very act of gaining meter for being hit is an affront to everything FGs stand for.
i thought you were making a different point than you were