Combo timing pros/cons

[AlzPatz]

This message brought to you by the letter P. If you’re borderline illiterate, it’s pretty much just an upside down b!

game, set and match. thank you

[R_Panda]

It’s not confusing at all… the person he quoted asked, if 1 frame links are so easy why don’t people combo into blanka’s ultra more often?

The answer to that is because blanka’s combo into ultra is a single crouching medium kick perfectly spaced one-frame linked into ultra.

He’s not saying blanka players morons, he’s saying that only a moron would think that a single crouching medium kick perfectly spaced is a hit confirm into your ultra. He quoted the right post, I have no idea how that could possibly be confusing to you unless you didn’t know that that was the only way to combo into Blanka’s ultra outside of a focus attack or stun.

Essentially, you’d be stupid to gamble your ultra on that one hit, especially given Blanka’s phenomenally good focus attack and far, far more tactical usage as an ambiguous crossup.

Woah. I didn’t know that was the “combo” he was talking about. Things make more sense now, I see. If we were actually talking about a real combo that had a one frame link into ultra, you might see how I was confused. Viper has some timing intense ways to land ultra, so this still isn’t that far off, like lk,lk,c.mp sjc ultra. That’s a 2 frame link, but it’s similar. If the c.mp doesn’t connect and they block the ultra, it’s actually more dangerous because any character can punish it however they want, and receive almost no chip damage in return. At least Blanka’s got that chip on block.

[Epedemic]

I’m not sure why people are so anti-pad here. XD

I did all of the normal and hard trial challenges on ps3 pad. Anything is possible on the pad, just takes practice.

[Kich]

I’m not sure why people are so anti-pad here. XD

I did all of the normal and hard trial challenges on ps3 pad. Anything is possible on the pad, just takes practice.

Same thing with the keyboard, people assume that it’s bad because it’s not a stick, when in actuality it’s far better for precise execution in almost every way. It actually makes almost every aspect of SF4 easier.

There are very, very few things that keyboards don’t excel at: grapplers and tatsu-copters (any instant air move really) and cancelling into mash moves consistently (which can probably be gotten around with some clever button assignments).

[DayUn]

Same thing with the keyboard, people assume that it’s bad because it’s not a stick, when in actuality it’s far better for precise execution in almost every way. It actually makes almost every aspect of SF4 easier.

There are very, very few things that keyboards don’t excel at: grapplers and tatsu-copters (any instant air move really) and cancelling into mash moves consistently (which can probably be gotten around with some clever button assignments).

Agreed. I play pad and the only 2 things i have trouble with are jab hhs and insta cannon spikes. Everything else can be done from my experience… just slightly harder.

[foger]

1 frame links are here to stay people

if not only for the fact that it makes all the xbox live heroes in here cry that they can’t do flashy combos

[Jagger]

Yes, because that’s all links are. Flashy combos. Way to prove a deep understanding of links.

Fucking scrub army.

I’m not sure why people are so anti-pad here. XD

I did all of the normal and hard trial challenges on ps3 pad. Anything is possible on the pad, just takes practice.

Really? THE normal and hard challenges? For the one whole character in the game, since it’s completely impossible that anyone other than Ken exists?

[R_Panda]

Same thing with the keyboard, people assume that it’s bad because it’s not a stick, when in actuality it’s far better for precise execution in almost every way. It actually makes almost every aspect of SF4 easier.

There are very, very few things that keyboards don’t excel at: grapplers and tatsu-copters (any instant air move really) and cancelling into mash moves consistently (which can probably be gotten around with some clever button assignments).

I don’t think superjumping is very easy on a pad, and difficult as hell on a keyboard because of the opposite diagonals. I think anything with intense diagonal input is hard on a keyboard, actually. But yeah, Viper requires the precision of a stick, as far as I have experienced. Other characters might have an easier time, but there are still things that I can’t really imagine being fun to attempt.

[darkfroggy]

Many of the 1 frame links in this game are critical to top level play. Take Ryu for example… for a starter character, he surprisingly has an ton of 1-2 frame combos that you see utilized quite often in high level play. The problem is relaxing those 1 frame combos might inadvertently create brand new 1 frame links that were previously not possible.

And to the guy talking about competitive CS. For the years that I played the game competitively… there’s been SOOO many situations where reacting 17ms earlier for the awp shot probably would have clutched out the round and sometimes even match for my team.

No. You simply repeat the input for a couple frames like BlazBlue. No new combos will arise.

This change won’t affect high-competition play as much, but it will definitely make it more accesible to CASUAL players. CASUAL players keep companies alive, not the <10% competitive playerbase.

BlazBlue doesn’t have an insane execution barrier, yet there’s still a great deal of skill in it. You don’t get Ultra’d just because you didn’t hit a 1 frame link.

[darkfroggy]

Same thing with the keyboard, people assume that it’s bad because it’s not a stick, when in actuality it’s far better for precise execution in almost every way. It actually makes almost every aspect of SF4 easier.

There are very, very few things that keyboards don’t excel at: grapplers and tatsu-copters (any instant air move really) and cancelling into mash moves consistently (which can probably be gotten around with some clever button assignments).

Keyboard is not as ergonomic for the hands.

Carpel Tunnel Syndrome ftw?

[RopeDrink]

Same thing with the keyboard, people assume that it’s bad because it’s not a stick, when in actuality it’s far better for precise execution in almost every way. It actually makes almost every aspect of SF4 easier.

When I bought SF4, got home and remembered I forgot to inquire about buying a Pad/Stick I cringed, knowing I’d be stuck with the Keyboard until I bothered to go back the next week to ask about a controller. I ranted and raved when I started out with the game, considering myself to be at a handicap and using it as an excuse but in all honesty, now that I’ve adapted to it, I bloody love it.

Problem with that is I’m a Rogster so, if anything, Keyboard sits very well with him whereas if I had chosen a QC or 360 character I don’t know how well I’d have coped, really. I certainly don’t think it’s bad but I definately won’t glorify it, either. SF was made for the trusty stick so even though I’ve never used one outside of Arcade SF games a decade ago, I’d still consider it the default control winner over the other options hands down.

I may not be flawless with my combos but they’re not made anymore difficult via Keyboard for sure, especially as far as actual charging goes which is an absolute joy on KB - Can understand how some people would hate it via comfort and preference etc

I’m strictly speaking SF4 however as I somewhat skipped a generation of SF games so I can’t imagine the other more high octane/high speed SF games playing out via Keyboard.

[TIFunkalicious]

People can play KB just fine: [media=youtube]gzGDt-W3bgw[/media]

Links seemed to ‘click’ with me these past couple weeks, I’m actually pretty proud of myself. Suddenly 2-3 frames doesn’t seem hard at all, and I can actually hit confirm with practically every character. This doesn’t stop them from being ass online though. So, ahh, keep with it I guess?

After branching out into a couple new characters like Sakura and Seth, maybe my perspective was a little skewed. Previously, my heaviest link character was chun-li, and though they are important to her game, they are neither hard nor a crutch you must rely on. But if you can’t do Sakuras links, you might as well just hang up the character. I’m drilling them combos successfully right now. It is good to see that there is a little execution variety so those with more training time can open up a few more characters, but I wish at least a little of Sak was available to the masses. Maybe the ones who are complaining should move onto a ‘basics’ character like Balrog or Sagat?

I still maintain that I haven’t seen a ‘necessary’ 1-framer, though.

[AlzPatz]

[quote=“TheRetroKid, post:69, topic:75267”]

good points…etc etc…

And for muken to downplay the full super parry? bullshit. Just because it can be done in practice mode after multiple tries, doesn’t mean it’s an easy feat. how many times has someone had the dexterity to actually do it in a high pressure situation? I count one. QUOTE]

Agree with everything you say…just wanted to add that Justin got full parried again by Ryan Hart a few years ago…count is now 2, but that is still ridiculously hard to do and rare!

[Mihai]

**My opinion: **The timing required for the combos you need to play at a reasonably competitive level is a way excessive in this game. That is to say, you’re at a major disadvantage if you can’t pull off “basic” 5 part combos like with Akuma, c.LK c.LP HP into BnB. Note that this involves 15-48 millisecond windows for inputting commands between 1/60th and 1/20th of a second is not a reasonable input time frame

What are your thoughts on the timing in this game? Should the timing be as hard as it is or maybe even harder to punish new/clumsy players, or should it be less strict to provide a more strategic game?

People like you should not only be banned from SRK, but be tracked down and shot.

You are a scrub. Welcome to SF. This ain’t a clickity clickity clickaroo MMO or some other piece of dog shit game like it.

[Radiantsilvergun3]

People like you should not only be banned from SRK, but be tracked down and shot.

You are a scrub. Welcome to SF. This ain’t a clickity clickity clickaroo MMO or some other piece of dog shit game like it.

Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion. Your a model poster and others should follow your example.

[Kich]

Clickity clickity clickaroo. Interesting.

[System_1]

I do agree with the theories behind Drexion’s arguements. However, I think 1 frame links serve a purpose is SF4. Players who can utilize the more difficult combos involving 1 frame links in matches can potential cause more damage and stun than a player using only bnb combos (for example). They are more difficult because they can seriously change/win a match. They may involve more practice and a high skill level to execute in a match, but the advantages that people can have using these combos is evident.

Besides, there is no answer to this argument, because if difficult things are made easier because people complain, then people will complain that everything is too easy and should be made more difficult. And that is fine, because everyone will always have their own opinion on whether they like a gameplay system or not. It’s up to the player if they have problems with it, to either train to overcome their problems, or find a different game that is more suited to their playing style.

[SoVi3t]

I mean, I main Chun and it’s virtually impossible to execute some of her Lightning Leg set ups on a controller.

I mained her first, but had to give up cuz i could NOT pull off legs combos well

i think SOME of the combo’s could use changes. But some links are 1 frame for a reason.

Just sucks when you’re online though.

[Kich]

i think SOME of the combo’s could use changes. But some links are 1 frame for a reason.

I actually can’t think of a single reason why any link should be 1 frame unless it’s a link that really shouldn’t even be possible: to which I would argue, get rid of that fucking link.

Like Ryu’s overhead to super or shoryu, no, that shouldn’t be fucking possible it’s an overhead.

Truly, nothing should be 1-framed, those combos that are fucking outrageous with them, should be impossible to link into as it stands anyways.

It’s not like it would change anything, really, people would still use jabs to hit-confirm and end in harder hitting easier to cancel from normals…

[Overworld]

I never understood the position of those who say anyone advocating making something easier, is only doing so because they suck. I mean overall wouldn’t it be about whether or not the change would benefit the game? There areas where the consideration would be then would be how it affects the gameplay both in balance and in “fun”. The games intends to be fun, while remaining balanced. (Ultras are more fun than balanced, for instance.)

Making timings slightly easier wouldn’t really harm the game I don’t think. There are many games not as reliant on these sorts of combos. It would seem in watching SF4 you see top players drop combos way more than you do in previous competitive games (with a few notable exceptions) so I don’t see how making the timings a bit more lax would work out.

I mean there are tons of games with easier inputs that still took awhile to master. You can’t just jump into 3S and be awesome, but the inputs are easier than SFIV.

This is coming from a person who does play on a stick, is learning to plink/double tap and doesn’t mind spending the time to learn, but if I can spend less time working on execution and more time working on mindgames I think it would be more rewarding, and more fun at the same time.