Columbia, SC: "Vox Veritas Vita"

I played a lot of CT. I enjoyed the game at first, but the more I played it, the less I enjoyed it. I admittedly did not play a lot of CS, but I was immediately turned off by how much similar it felt. It was as if they jostled everything just to… jostle it. The end product felt very much the same. I definitely got the feel of CT though, and CS felt the same.

I really want to give BB a chance, hence the inquiry. I still believe full and well that the 3rd or 4th incarnation of the series will be a good one, and they’ve gotten their first two out of the way :stuck_out_tongue:

What are Makoto and Valk looking to do? What’s the goal of their game overall? Rush down? Zoning? How do they accomplish it?

If characters aren’t doing damage now, that’s amazing. My main gripe with BB was that everybody was doing half life or more just to do half life or more (ie: Tekken 5.0). If you have to wait until you’re in the corner to drop 50% off of their life bar, that’s great. It adds another strategic element. Go for a combo to carry them to the corner, damage, or oki?

Everyone I’ve astralled should play… I’ll be watching…

@ SimpleKiss: Watching that Hakumen vs Arakune match was beautiful. Although he was getting his face stomped in the first round, he still stayed patient. The Litchi match was intersting and that Bang match was just horrible :-S

@ Lei Hates: Of course you’re gonna be on the team and you didn’t even need to ask…duh :stuck_out_tongue: I’m also thinking about making the team qualifier our next tournament on either 1/29 or 2/12 to give SC more notice. Top 4 from SC would get a spot on the team. BTW, I’m listening to the Anniversary OST at work right now :slight_smile: It’s really addicting.

@ Icege: I don’t know very much about Makoto or Valk, but Kimchi or Tsu should be able to answer that question a bit better. I believe Makoto plays more rushdown and Valk seems like a counter-hit hunter. But once again, I’m no expert. Ask me about Tsubaki or Noel, then I can give you a gameplan, lol.

Edit:

@ Guide: I believe Lei Hates was referring to SSFIV, not any other game :stuck_out_tongue:

@ SC: Do you guys want to have the Tekken, BBCS and other team game qualifiers here too or elsewhere?

wow are you serious? I didn’t know someone could get their head that far up their ass. The only person that should be guaranteed a position is Keyon for obvious reasons, and of course whoever is driving haha.
i need to stop comin on this thread, shits so fuckin garbage.

Ben and I played Makoto vs Valkenhayn last night for quite a long time and this is what I got out of it:

Valkenhayn has advantages all around (in this particular match up. It could probably be said the same for the majority of the roster that cannot zone him out or has instant block shenanigans. ). 236A, even on instant block is safe. With that safe, you’re going to want to keep your opponent in block stun for quite some time so you can do his version of a mix up - which consist of a constant variation of highs and lows. I would often 5b, 5c, 236A ( non instant blocked ) -> 2A, 6B, 2b, 236A. I would usually change 236A to 236C, since unless they know what you’re doing, their taking that overhead. If your opponent doesn’t instant block 236A and you psychic a jab, that’s a free counter throw. Jank ass frame trap? If it’s in the corner, step up, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C -> Wolf form bullshit. Granted, since I am just starting with him, my timing on the wolf form combos is off. Basically, I don’t know when I need to wolf dash to effectively perform the x2 J.B, transform back to human, land 5B and then 632146D. Or find which combo it is that I can transform back to human in mid-air, continue the combo and then end with 236236C.

The main thing to remember is that he can wolf cancel a lot of his moveset and run away provided your opponent doesn’t catch on to it. The most ambiguous one would have to be kara cancelling 6C.

Reversals? No reversal without meter. His best reversals overwise are his Astral ( 214214C ) or 632146D.

Also, do not think that rapid cancelling his combos is meaningless… if you’re doing a prolonged combo, chances are you’re going to gain that meter back from what comes after 5B, 5C, 236A, (Rapid) 2C, 6B, 5B, 5C, 236C -> Wolf Combos of your choice since there are variants of them.

Unless it is a DP ( Makoto’s, Tsubamegaishi or INFERNO DIVIDER ) or some godly anti-air J.C wins on a lot of jump ins. Of course, there’s Hakumen’s drive to worry about…(maybe) unfortunately Hakumen has no fear factor to his gameplay.

Valkenhayn requires… no, demands excellent footsies. Without them, characters are going to stuff his main pokes ( 5B Can hit crouching opponents, 2A and 5C… but very little usage of it, due to its insane amount of startup. ) I can already see characters like Litchi and Hakumen being trouble for him - Litchi even more so that Hakumen, however. He has no true zoning game, but a small one that he can use against certain characters… I used 5C -very- often against Makoto because I knew that there wasn’t a damn thing she could do about it if she didn’t instant block it. On counter hit, the hit stun is ridiculous enough to go straight into 236C and start combos. Even though his foostie game and offense are good, on the defensive, he’s horrible. Especially in the corner. With below average health and only four guard primers, you cannot afford to make too many mistakes. Missed opportunities equal heavy damage… even if it is only 2.5-3k. Once Kimchi got ahold of me in Makoto madness, I wasn’t getting out unless I guess right and even though I know the Makoto match up like the back of my hand, with a terribly defensive character like Valk, my options are still limited. I would have to luck out and wait for him to attempt to use his tail in the air so that I can 2C counter hit trade in my favor, 5b, TK 214B.

With all of that said, I don’t think Valkenhayn is a rush down character at all. Quite the contrary - he requires a lot of patience due to his game plan. It’d probably be wiser to attempt playing counter hit hunter, but being meaty with some of your attacks can pay off too, given the situation arises. You ( IMO ) have some bad match ups in the form of Hazama, Litchi, Taokaka and Tager, but they’re all winnable. Litchi may be a bit harder than the others, due to her laughing at your attempts to play footsies with her, but she won’t laugh as soon as you touch her. Attempting to rush down would just get you rushed down, as Ben’s Makoto thoroughly explained to me. With that said, testing Ragna’s 6A or anything of that nature is a no-no.

Well… I’ll probably have more once I play with him more and perfect his combos. Playing his has definitely opened doors for me in a more technical sense. He may be ’ Brokenhayn R. Hellsing ’ but at least he needs to work for his damage output. That is what I really wanted… to feel that I was putting in the effort to obtain my results. I may not be ready to use him in the next S.C tournament, but with the direction I am taking, he may become the new main. Hope this helped out… some. I know what makoto does -against- me, but using her? You’re gonna have to rely on Ben for that.

I didnt realize astraling was a right of passage now lol. Im not sure whats worse though…getting astral’d , or losing the America challenge…thoughts?

Can i make a small suggestion? rather than just use 1 of those 2 tournaments to dictate the other 4, would it be ok if u take…say…the top 2 from each tournament instead? and if someone repeats, then go down to the next position…that way its not all on the line in 1 tournament? Folks can have a bad day…so the 2nd tournament would be the “last chance qualifier” of sorts.

sigh…

I’d take getting astral’d over losing a to a character with 25% health at the beginning of the match. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Another thing about the Valkenhayn subject and this is a question towards Casey since I know he’s lurking about in here somewhere;

When it comes to the J.B portion of the wolf form combos in the corner, it seems that I am missing the timing on something. Either I am doing something too fast to where I cannot get the second J.B in or I am doing something too slow to where I cannot transform back to Human state on landing and 5B. Visual aids only tell me so much, since I am looking at videos of them, so I was wondering… does the position of the target have to be a certain way? Do I have to delay my 236A and 236B some? It may be because I just woke up or something to where I cannot tell from the video so I figured I’d ask someone who’s put more time in the character than myself. … Or anyone else in this state, for that matter.

If it’s a timing issue, then if I get a chance today I’ll work on delaying those inputs some. Also, your opinion of how demanding T.K 214B is on certain combos?

If you look at the changes they made for CS, in a vaccuum, they make sense with the exception of bang. It was known for a very long time that the changes to Bang were too much and too good, and that near the end of CT people were learning that Bang wasn’t that bad in reality.

Litchi needed a lot of her feints and things. THe problem is that they gave her too much combo power and too many things lead to the damage. It’s a problem when your character has the best air-to-air in the game, and it fatal counters, leads to 4-5k damage, instant corner carry and free 50% meter any time you take it.

Hazama was an interesting character, problem was that they made his keep away game too strong, and his ground game is non-existent. and he just stalls for meter then because of the IB system, and having the best metered reversal in the game was another issue. The fact that instant blocking only lowers blockstun by 3 frames instead of 5 in CS2 is basically an indirect nerf to Hotenjin.

I feel that Hakumen is actually in a good place. He’s good and he’s a complete character, to me. He has strengths: He touches you, you die. High Priority normals. He has weaknesses: His pressure game is weak, and needs meter for mixups, He also lacks mobility. Hakumen’s Jump C is amazing priority and is fast, but unlike litchi’s, it knocks you across the screen and does like 800 damage tops on counter hit (not leading to anything unless it’s in the corner)

Valkenhayn, at least, in CS1 is a better version of hakumen. He has the best anti-air in the game, if you take it, say goodbye to 5k life. All of his normals except his jabs have amazing priority and all combo into something big. Valkenhayn with meter is easily the scariest character in the game, because he will damn near 100% you if he’s good and depending on your character. If you’re taokaka, and Valkenhayn touches you with 100% meter and you have no burst… might as well put the controller down. He has one of the best overheads in the game, 6C. It’s kind of slow, but it actually has amazing priority, and it’s +FRAMES ON BLOCK. Valkenhayn is very hard to punish. And his mobility is excellent. I’ve seen good valks use wolf form to reposition themselves within seconds, or use it to close distance for SURPRISE buttsecksing.

Makoto has short range and is kind of unsafe. She lives and dies off her pressure game. Her biggest issue is getting in on someone, and getting them to take something. Her jabs are amazing however. Makoto is less about mixups, and more about keeping constant pressure.

Awww why did you go and tell him that? i actually liked the thought of how fucking stupid he must have felt when he made that post cause it was blatantly obviously he didnt know what the fuck i was talking about but still felt the need to voice his opinion like it matters…[media=youtube]_2QPrOwk6RI&feature=related"[/media] i guess

As for the other team tournaments…umm i dont even want to address Tekken…i would say just let Charleston handle it again like last year since its “their game” (maybe…)…but…well that was just a huge clusterfuck…so i dunno…who from Cola would even want to take part in that? For BB…im fine with whatever gets decided…im not sure how far the scene extends outside of Columbia with that game but id be down for partaking in it…and i would expect to be put through a qualifier of some sort for that.

You got lucky/cheated most of the time. Astralling people on the other hand? Pure skill. :arazz:

Hmmm…Not sure if serious

Blazblue teams = No.

Why? Unnecessary drama.

Opinion - Do not make a team for a game the community doesn’t even care about. Just because Ben and Myself are playing that game hard and are the only ones that care enough to make improvement and continue progression doesn’t give anyone enough reason to be all gung ho about the team idea. Why make a team when 80% of the community doesn’t even care?

Stick with street fighter and only street fighter. As much as I’d hate to say it, it’s the only game this community has going for it.

EDIT: I was just reading some of the previous post… @SimpleKiss: Valkenhayn? Excellent Mobility? Watching is different from playing and most advent Valk players are probably gonna tell you that his mobility is terrible. Using Wolf meter just to position yourself and how easily punishable it is, especially against his worse off match ups isn’t smart at all. That meter is better used for his mix up game… not his mobility. Hell, I came to find out last night that he had terrible mobility, this my forward progression without block strings + 236A/236C was horrid. I attempted Wolf dash cancel into human form and then do a normal to try and keep space. Want to know what happened? Makoto made me wiff and I was easily punished by anti air, into 4k bull shit.

I would say something else… but I, too, want to avoid unnecessary drama.

@ Lei Hates: I was actually thinking about breaking it up in two day, but didn’t want to inconvenience out of towners at first. However, your idea sounds good, so I’ll plan the qualifiers for 1/29 and 2/16. Having Tekken 6 in Charleston would be a good idea and gives me an excuse to pay them a visit :slight_smile:

@ Usagi: I’m still gonna have the qualifier anyway because there may be others players that wanna participate from other parts of SC. If you or anyone else doesn’t wanna participate, then that’s fine. But if other people wanna make a SC team, I’m not gonna stop them.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t participate. Why wouldn’t I? I support my scene, even if atm, it is practically non-existant. I suggested what I did because I know how our community works. I’m sorry if that makes me look like a ’ negative nancy ’ but it’s how I feel. Though I’m gonna say this… it may fall along the lines of something someone may have said before:

If there were more people that played the game, then where are they?

On another note, is something gonna happen today? :3 Being in this house is really cramping mah style. Besides, if I plan on playing Valkenhayn in the future, I am gonna need more match up experience… and a system to play in general. :x I’m about to cave and just buy it for X-box.

Bryon you’re a homo. Jersey Shore watching bitch nigga.

edit: but You’re prolly right, it’s not like Keyon beasted everyone in Cola in Super with Guy recently. That must not have happened.

@ Thomas: Okay, I just got a bit confused by your message. Like I said before, I just wanna give everyone and people that may have not shown themselves in the scene a chance to participte in a team battle. Between Cola and the rest of SC, there might be some other people interested in the idea. I won’t know unless I try.

I’ll be at Wild Wings today for a job sponsored dinner today, but maybe we can all meet up at Nashi tomorrow (lol).

Makoto is a high risk high reward character.
Almost all of her mixup options are unsafe. It will really depend on how creative you can be with your mix-up to get your opponent to take something. Her safest option after a blocked gatling is probably astral-vision b/c jump 2c (the super tail). But even then if your opponent knows the match-up (THOMAS), even that becomes unsafe. She even has holes in her gatling, if you don’t mix it up, makoto can be easily punished. Going into patterns with Makoto is one of the worst things you can possibly do as that can be easily exploited and countered. She has alot of mix-up options ie:
Throwing in random lows at wherever in your gatling like 2b,2c
Ending your gatling in 3c and try to bait your opponent.
Feinting the 3c and going for more pressure,grab,another low etc. etc.
Astral vision into absolutely nothing/grab/drive/more pressure
you get the point

Her other strengths, the obvious one is her damage.
From a high level makoto if you take a counter hit you will be taking atleast 6k damage. Off of fatal counter atleast 7k
Makoto excels when you have your opponent in the corner. Not off of ch can still lead to stupid big damage in the corner. Or in the corner you do big damage and then go for oki reset with the corona ball and start pressure again where they have to guess. If they guess wrong they take more big damage.
Jump B. is a great anti-air to fish for counter hits. from mid screen, if done right can lead to 5k+ and puts your opponent in the corner.
Her 5a and 2a are excellent jabs. Even if you instant block her jab, you cannot get away b/c the block stun is so high which is great. 6a is also a good anti-air
She can apply great pressure, but if your opponent knows the matchup (THOMAS), it is hard to continue said pressure b/c her mixup options which are relatively unsafe and punish said options.
In my opinion i would put her in the middle of rush down and counter hit hunter. Since she has this issue of getting zoned out by other characters, you really have to be patient till you find your opening, but onces you get in, it’s on like diddy kong. You can’t really go all gung ho rush down or you will just run into things which you don’t want to. my game plan usually is to be patient mid screen and look for that opening, the go in and try my best to toss them into the corner where can i can then control the pace of the match.

I wanna be on the team

Any news on KOF 98 final edition

this is zach …(end)(lmao) where’s the love

Love? There is no love. Only HATRED.

With that said, Ben is here. Type for hyperbolic. Peace!