Combofiend doesn’t interact with people on twitter from what i’ve seen, he might read the message but doesn’t go in on it, most likely because if he responds to one person everyone is going to tweet him to death. This unfortunately makes it EXTREMELY difficult for western players to get their concerns heard. I’ve forwarded a few mails to their capcom mail adresses for Combo and Dawgtanian and on a few occasions tried it on their stream…
Might aswell make a Twitter account just to bother them, because why not.
I actually covered this long ago. Every time it’s been mentioned I’ve pointed out F+HK - EX Ruffian - sHP would work.
However HK Ruffian - FADC - JHP HP wouldn’t work.
You lose the knife on FADC
None of the jumping normals got the juggle buff
It’s really being oversold, it’s really gimmicky.
And the reset isn’t even good since it leaves Cody too far to do anything neat like a dash under (like Abel with crHP - roll - jab. Or Makoto with EX Hayate - F+LK) and the timing on it is too slow to really get a safe jump in mixup situation. You’re too far for a crossup after due to the knockback on the knife hit vs airborne and the recovery is too slow so if you jump you’re pretty free to a DP type move (not just 3F DPs, I mean even 7F stuff like Ibuki’s)
I had a little brain storm last night and I think I figured out why Capcom is holding back on the Cody buffs compared to the rest of the cast. The general consensus of non-Cody players is that his biggest issue is having to deal with wake up pressure, and now delayed wake-up is in the game. I think they believe he’ll only benefit from it and has no other issues… Which isn’t true at all lol. Not to mention that a lot of his hard matchup’s will be getting worse due to them getting wild buffs that he doesn’t have tools to deal with.
Rose’s only weakness was the weak wakeup as well. And look what she got, DESPITE already having the best backdash in the game. We wanted the same. We didn’t get it.
Rose needed damage though. Her damage output was ass without wasting meter. Not only did she get the damage buff and the wakeup buff, she got a stun damage buff too. (I dunno why though.)
anyone I talk to that knows any bit about Cody will tell you he still needs better walkspeed and backdash. Or something about the knife. the wakeup game gets mentioned here and there buy everyone will adress the walkspeed and backdash first.
If you ever needed proof on Cody’s other non-wakeup problems these 2 Vega matches show it.
HK Ruffian, attempting ~6 times. Not 1 time did it cleanly anti air.
Terrible walk speed lets Vega play his own game and avoid Cody until he feels comfortable to approach
Terrible fireball gives him little to no long/mid range pressure or safe chip options.
Lots of normals trading (even his B+MP)
No way to really open people up other than EX Zonk vs delayed tech / stand tech gambles.
I thought the Cody played the match fine really. B+MP trading, at least in this match, is due to the Cody player doing it rather late (which it will trade with most good jump ins if you do B+MP late.) Though Cody has to play patient against Vega players especially if Vega player has better footsies. If that’s the case, you really need to be picking up the knife and cr.LP/s.LPing any button you see just to let the Vega player know that doesn’t work. (you can do the same with nonknife s.LP/cr.LP but you won’t be getting MK ruffian buffer to connect from max distance.)
But this is me. I honestly believe you need the knife to make the Vega matchup a lot more bearable because you’re already going to be outpoked most of the time and with the knife in hand, you can at least whiff punish more of his normals with Cody’s knife normals. Which in turn makes Vega rethink about pushing his buttons to look for a hit confirm or free damage.
The thing is that if you do B+MP too early there is a good chance of it whiffing. It doesn’t cover a lot of area.
crLP / sLP with knife are very likely to trade with any button Vega uses. They have much smaller hitboxes and large hurtboxes than Cody’s normal jabs. In a MU like this where it’s probably the 2nd or 3rd slowest/least mobile character in the game fighting against the fastest / most mobile character in the game it’s pretty hard to get the knife in the first place. Losing it on a trade and having to give up any additional chance to pressure Vega to try and get the knife again is incredibly inconsistent gameplan. (esp since frame trapping Vega is one of the only ways Cody wins this MU is if he can pin Vega down for long enough to gain some momentum.)
My point though wasn’t that Cody played the match up wrong. It was that Cody’s tools are lacking in more areas than just wakeup and that video shows it. ESPECIALLY the walk speed, badstone, and HK Ruffian issues.
I guess people just need to go into training and find the timing with B+MP against jump in normals. I don’t think it’s that hard to whiff unless it’s dive kick characters or you just misjudge the angle of a jump. Otherwise if it’s trading or getting beat, your timing was a little too late.
I don’t think it’s hard at all to get the knife and hold on to it. Especially if you’re trying to play the footsie game with Vega. If the knife is going to greatly help me from stopping vega from poking for free, i’ll take the time to get the knife. 99 seconds in a match will give me some time to get the knife and be able to hold on to it. (the problem really lies on the obvious loss of knife during general mechanic usage.) Walk Vega down, block, grab the knife. Even easier now that you don’t have to special cancel and just hold back to block. O-o i’m lost here.
Knife cr.lp/slp don’t trade with Vega’s normals. At least whenever i’ve used them they don’t. They flat out beat any ground normal he’s thrown at me. I’ve pre-emptively thrown those out and stuffed vega’s cr.MP/s.MP without an issue. They’re just as good and dumb as Cody’s knifeless cr.lp/s.lp minus the fact you can buffer into a special. But you’re not doing that in this match from max distance anyway because you can’t get ruffian to connect. Just slow the match down and play footsies. What’s vega going to do from mid - full screen without being obvious to react to that he’ll open you up with?
I can’t really agree too much on the badstone being a bad tool in matchups like this. At least I personally don’t see it. What’s the issue with HK ruffian? Only thing i’ve ever really had an issue with it is not hitting crouchers. I think I remember seeing ZUkUu talk about possibly giving it some invincibility frames at one point. Otherwise you can’t treat it like a DP by doing it late and hoping it’s in your favor.
I’m with you on most of what you said except for HK ruffian not having issues. That move is overall pretty terrible and it’s one of the things I wished they tweaked in Ultra. It has a slow start up, huge hurtbox and trades way too often. Not to mention the issue of opponents floating over it and punishing Cody upon landing, or floating out of U1 range after an FADC.
ah yea I remember if you hit HK ruffian too high and FADC>U1 it misses. IIRC you have to buffer U1 and walk forward a bit or double dash U1 or…something. I don’t remember. I’m rarely using U1 outside of the usual matchups it’s best at.
I don’t know though. I don’t have that huge of a issue with it outside of my own faults of misjudging the jump angle. Otherwise the move is hella active and does what it needs to do which is be a good Anti-Air special. It’s not a DP but it does the job considering Cody has damn near 5 other AA normals.
You must be godlike then because as I showed you. Bayseeker20 got it stuffed / missed / traded multiple times in that set of Vega matches and he is one of the top Cody players in japan. I’d probably say it’s Sasaki > Furanjisan > Sitamachi > TeasingButton = Bayseeker (assuming you leave out Momochi who doesn’t play Cody almost at all anymore.)
Also in regards to B+MP trading. The thing is that the move only hits in front of you for 1F, the rest of the frames are directly above you. Almost all of the situations in those Vega matches that you see the B+MP trade it was done because at that position if Vega did an empty jump instead of FJ HP then B+MP would whiff entirely. You can see that a lot in some match ups.
That is more an issue with Cody being unable to manuever into a better position and Vega being able to easily space himself against Cody’s slow mobility rather than B+MP’s problems.
In regards to Badstone here is how I look at it:
What is a fireball supposed to accomplish?
It is supposed to be:
A distended hitbox that allows you to pressure from a safe distance [Badstone does this one ‘ok’ but Badstone’s short travel distance coupled with long startup makes it harder to do.]
A good meter builder [Badstone is poor at this since so many badstones completely whiff and the move has only 10 meter build on startup.]
Control the opponents movement by being a threat that they cannot back away from (due to proximity blocking) and must either jump over or block. [Badstone is terrible at this. The move doesn’t gain proximity blocking until 7F before it becomes active as the charging portion has no prox blocking. The move is active for VERY little time so it doesn’t control movement for particularly long. It also is easily neutral jumped due to losing altitude and easily low profiled up close.
Be a good block string ending special due to spacing and distended hitbox allowing it to push opponent away from being able to punish. [Badstone is useless at this due to startup time leaving Cody vulnerable for upwards of 12F even after a crHP.]
A tool to zone people out and keep them from approaching [Badstone is mediocre at this. The slow startup makes it easy to react to at many ranges. It also does the least pushback on block of any fireball, has the lowest blockstun of any fireball, and does very little damage on hit or block meaning it’s very little in terms of threat. Characters like Zangief can easily walk forward - block - walk forward the move all day because it does no chip or pushback and Cody can’t buffer it from a normal for additional pushback. It’s only really good at this vs characters who also have poor anti fireball tools or low mobility.
Be a tool to extend combos [Badstone is terrible at this. You cannot combo into it except for EX and because the majority of the frame advantage comes from the fast recovery you actually lose frame advantage if you FADC it except on EX or a very far distance fireball.]
Be a whiff punish / option select tool from far ranges [Too slow on startup except for perhaps EX.]
The thing I like to always point out is that anyone can make their fireball have 16-20F recovery by FADCing it if they have the meter. Cody can’t make his fireball startup faster than 24F for EX and 29F for normal no matter how much meter he has.
Badstone isn’t a terrible move, but it’s not a good one either. It’s probably the 2nd worst fireball in the game only better than Dan’s. Sakura ties it imo, Cody’s EX badstone is very good (and all of his fireballs should be 24-25F startup like EX) and it’s better than Sakura’s EX but in exchange Sakura gets more use out of her fireball thanks to level 3 fireball knockdown setups (also her level 2 fireball has less startup than Cody’s normal fireball and does 80 damage which is the same amount Cody’s MAX fireball does.)
The other thing is that because Cody’s frame advantage is based on having a faster recovery, after a certain point other fireballs will actually surpass it in frame advantage since they have more blockstun and are active much longer. Hell, Gouken’s fireball has the same amount of frame advantage at point blank as Cody’s MP Badstone but also has 170% faster startup (12F) and does more damage. Juri’s fireball is +4F on block and the store part is safe on block (-1F). Hell her ex is +5F on block (+7F on the MK+HK version which hits midbody)
hmm, I just might be the only one that thinks RH ruffian isn’t that bad a move, or bad at all. It works well if you use it right. Against Vega its really the go to AA since his jump ins are so good. And if it trades (in your favor), so what? Thats a free 300~ dmg off ex ruffian/ex cu / U 1 (corner) (if you ever use it))
No you’re not alone. It’s not a perfect anti air, but it has its uses. Like I said, Cody’s anti air game is very solid between b.MP, HK Ruffian, s.HK, cl.HK and s.LP. His anti air game is the least of his problems.
his anti air game is fine. he’s got the tools to deal with all sorts of jumps. its up to you to vary your anti air according to the situation. you can also use stuff like bad spray and j.lp to help in other situations. remember, both those moves got buffed last version.
I dunno about godlike but I know my ranges majority of the time and react fast enough to throw it out there so that it hits. But again, you don’t treat HK ruffian like a DP by doing it as late as you can. You’re doing it earlier or at the opponent’s Jump arc. Which is overall why I don’t see the reason for needing invincibility on it. The special is pretty damn good already. (FADCable, very active hitbox, can connect MK ruffian a lot easier after a high HK ruffian hit, FADC>U1 staple.)
I just don’t see any huge flaws in it. Considering Cody has more than enough choices for AAs outside of HK ruffian and B+MP (s.LP, jumpback j.LP, s.HP, cr.HP, cl.HK although questionable, is a choice, knife cr.HP, knife jumpback j.LP.)
I think a lot of people shouldn’t be looking at badstone as a actual fireball because it’s not and it does well showing it’s not a fireball (and doesn’t need to be one.). IDEALLY it should be like it was in Alpha 3 which is have a high enough arc to go over fireballs and punish them from a distance for throwing said fireball. But seeing it’s not like that in this game, it’s just a fairly ok projectile for Cody to deal with actual fireballs or people camping on the other side of the screen. Just something extra. Even better considering Cody has somewhat of an option outside of always trying to inch his way in and jab all day. (If I have trouble whiff punishing or beating a player in footsies, I don’t have an issue throwing rocks from a distance if I can. I don’t care if they jump/block/focus/hit. I’m getting meter in each situation if they allow me to throw the rocks and even more if they hit/connect.) If you have the lead, why would you stop? They have to approach to regain the lead. sit there and do nothing but throw rocks and react to what they do. You’re doing the same thing as an actual fireball character but from a further distance.
The only gripes i’ve had with rocks are with Chun being able to punish from full screen on reaction (actual rocks - fake rocks.) and not being able to release rocks as I let go of the button. (which was addressed.)
Ok see here is the thing. Just because there are other tools doesn’t make a tool not shit.
You can’t say Deejay’s far HK is an ok mid range normal because his far MK is good.
Alpha arc wouldn’t be enough for badstone. Know why? Different frame data. In Alpha 3 fireballs had significantly longer recovery. In A3 Ryu’s HP Fireball was 59F total. It had a 12F startup and 47F recovery. Cody’s badstone was 31F startup 28F recovery (all button strengths were same.)
Guess what that means? You could actually react to a fireball being thrown, throw your own and hit the opponent. Plus Cody could then dodge the fireball with Vism dodge. In SF4 Ryu’s fireball is 13F startup (12F technically if we are using the same style frame data as previously discussed.) with 45F total (33F recovery). That means Cody would have to throw a badstone either DURING the startup of Ryu’s fireball or BEFORE it to actually hit him. BTW this also shows that the recovery difference between Cody and Ryu was greater in Alpha though the total frame count was equal. Cody LP Badstonei in SF4 = 15F recovery. Ryu = 33F. 18F difference. However in Alpha it was 47 vs 28 = 19F difference. That is just comparing Cody’s FASTEST recover in SF4. With HP Badstone it’s only a 13F difference between Badstone and Hadoken in recovery.
AND there is more!
Alpha series fireballs lost damage the more frames they were on screen. Thus Cody’s fast flying fireball would do more damage at longer distance than other characters fireballs. At full screen distance Cody only lost ~20% damage while Ryu had his damage drop from 12 down to 1 point of damage.
And there is more!
Cody’s uncharged fireball in Alpha3 did the most damage of any fireball up close.
Damage breakdown
Ryu’s sLP = 6 damage 2stun
Ryu’s fireball at point blank range = 12 damage / 4 stun
Cody’s fireball at point blank = 13damage / 7stun (it also gained 3 damage and 1 stun per charge level. Max charge = 22damage 10stun)
So let’s just translate that to SF4 style.
Ryu’s sLP = 30 damage 50stun
Ryu’s fireball (in Super/AE) 60 damage 100stun. (As you can see this matches up with Alpha series.)
By that extrapolation Cody’s fireball should be:
65 damage 175stun minimum. Max charge = 110 damage 250stun
As a matter of fact, Cody’s max charged Badstone did more damage than SAKURA’S max charged fireball (22 vs 18)
Cody could combo into his badstone after a sHP - LP Criminal Upper juggle and then do another hit after that too!
There is a lot that Cody is missing from his badstone that made them usable as an anti fireball tool. Maybe if they upped the damage to match how it worked in Alpha AND the flight arc we’d be talking.
