My thing though is, what would be BAD about that? He’d still have to be the one to start the fireball war (or jump over one) because of the startup of badstone (for example if you blocked a tiger shot and tried to reversal badstone to hit the next tiger shot you’d still end up getting counterhit if Sagat threw a HP/HK one). He couldn’t just respond to fireballs all the time (he’d have to be at least a decent distance from them first). He still wouldn’t have the ability to walk behind his fireballs to pressure or do things like crMK - fireball as a near true blockstring like many characters. He still wouldn’t be able to extend combos by FADCing badstone like other fireballs. His fireball is still easily jumped over once you get past about 1/3rd screen and it starts falling.
Plus, what is wrong with one of the least mobile characters in the game being able to stand his ground? I mean, it’d be one thing if Cody had Ryu’s walk speed or a command throw to make him REALLY scary like Gief if he gets close. I could see it being an issue then. But he doesn’t, he is a slow moving character with a lot of trouble controlling his distance from the opponent due to below average walk speed forward and terrible backwards walk speed.
I mean, perhaps I’m wrong on this however that is how I look at it. (BTW, Even Evil Ryu and Akuma can combo into their red fireballs without EX.
Something I’m wondering about: Can Hugo duck Cody’s far HK? It’s not actually flagged to not hit crouchers like his F+HK is but it whiffs on all crouchers right now unless they attack. If Hugo can’t duck it then that poke is going to be amazing against him.
Also it’s going to look fucking stupid when Cody’s F+HK clips through Hugo’s face since it can’t hit crouching lol.
I didn’t say he would win any fireball wars (and Dan’s problem is the hurtbox on Gadoken - he would have a much better time if that was fixed). I also didn’t say it would be bad if stones were faster. If he has a faster fireball, the number of situations in which he would eat a full punish (jump-in or otherwise) would necessarily be reduced, as would the number of times he tries and fails to use bad stone to eliminate an opponent’s projectile. I’m not saying that wouldn’t be nice, but it seems like a buff purely for the sake of a buff. I really can’t see combo into stone without meter having an appreciable affect on his gameplan/matchups given the lack of frame advantage on hit compared to EX - if you think you have the read for a counter-hit, or you need to land something big for a comeback, why wouldn’t you burn the meter?
Everything about Hugo is stupid. Hawk and Gief are already massive compared to the rest of the cast - having Hugo tower over them is just plain ridiculous.
I really enjoy the design of Hugo though, I think he looks fantastic. I’d rather see them changing the crouching animation to something that’s actually low, maybe him on all fours or something
Btw, just watched the USF4 stream at NEC. I honestly can’t think of a worse character than Cody in the new build, who could it be? Maybe Dee Jay? Luckily it’s pretty clear ATM that it’s not the final version, but I mean, should we try to promote some ideas to them again, as the last time it didn’t really seem to sink in.
I didn’t see Cody at all in the USF4 stream at NEC. I’ve gone through the archives a couple of times now too. Still haven’t seen ANY Cody play footage from USF4 except for that Cody vs Blanka match from first location test.
Well I’ll be going to the Capcom Cup event saturday (with my mother no less, she wants to see the competition and try and play a little. She got into it watching this years evo finals. She is 51 and never played a fighting game in her life. If you wanna talk OG though it doesn’t get more OG than her playing MISSILE COMMAND at the arcade in the 1980s)
I’ll def explore the changes (esp if it’s a new build). If we are allowed to give feedback (as this isn’t a true location test from what I understand) I’ll def be giving a couple of suggestions:
F+HK - Airborne on 3F or 5F hits crouching opponents with damage reduced from 110 / 200 to 90 / 150. I def think that is the route to go for making it a useful tool in multiple scenarios. I think IAB F+HK would be a very strong tool defensively but offensively I’d rather he be able to hit crouching opponents even with reduced damage overall.
LP Criminal Upper - Made -3F on block so that significantly less characters can punish it if he spaces it properly but he is still negative enough that he can’t afford to hit a button after for risk of being counterhit. Maybe if they want to make it like -1F or -2F lower the damage from 140 to 120.
Walk speed buff - I’d personally like to see something like 0.041 forward 0.027 backwards. A 0.03 increased both forward and backwards would help him a lot. 68 total movespeed would also still be overall slower than Ken is BEFORE the walk speed buff, it’d only be slightly faster than Gief (65)
Badstone - startup reduced for all non-ex versions to 25F or make LP 26 MP 24 HP 22 as I said earlier. 25F for all versions would let him combo into LP on counterhit and is good enough for zoning purposes. I think that might be equally useful as the 26/24/22 option and is probably more likely to be accepted as it means HP Badstone would be 44F which is still a decent amount of time (Same as Akuma’s fireball)
Make Zonk FADC on hit actually usable for something.
Knife - 20-25% chip instead of 8-12% and allow sMP / crHP to be special canceled as well as give access to command normals and throws. I think not having focus would be kind of sucky but bearable, however he should at least by able to throw and tech without losing the knife.
and of course the one you all know I’m gonna ask for:
Really I’d trade a bit of damage in a number of areas (as long as he remained above average overall) in exchange for being to land damage more safely / consistently. A 10% damage nerf overall in exchange for being able to land damage 50% more often would def end up worth it.
@LockM Well, he was already quite low in the tier list to begin with. Now every character that was behind him has received some pretty robust buffs. The changes Cody got (can’t really call them buffs except for the f.HK) did not address his flaws, while the characters that were low tier got their flaws addressed. Combofiend mentioned that Dee Jay players wanted a special that’s un-throwable, and said that it seems fair he should have one. Eventhough he already has a few special moves that are un-throwable, so who the fuck knows what that was about.
I was comparing the changes Cody got and compared them to the current cast, didn’t consider the changes the other character have gotten, eventhough he got better, he’ll still end up worse overall from what you are saying. I can see that.
Anyway i honestly don’t know anymore what Cody exactly needs to be made more viable, i can thing of atleast 10 changes but i don’t know which ones are the best overall. Walkspeed buff is definately the big one now. Do feel Cody his buffs were mostly fixes for shit that should never have bene a problem in the first place and the actual buffs are half-assed, like EX CU for example. DON’t know how good/bad the backdash is though.
Well, as I’m watching what the rest of the cast is getting, I’m thinking of a linkable/chainable cr.lk that’s +4/5 on hit, so he can play a similar game to Dudley by not only relying on frametraps but a low confirmable, HK Ruffian start-up and invincibility frames buffed and damage nerfed so he can anti-air properly, Zonk being also invincible to low hitting moves, so that you can use it to counter things like Hozanshu from Chun-Li, and a decent walkspeed buff and dash buff so that he can deal with zoners, like Dhalsim and Sagat, as you can no longer FADC through limbs/fireballs. Either that to counter zoners, or make EX RK projectile invincible from 1 frame. I mean, these buffs don’t even seem that crazy watching the current cast, which is pretty worrisome
You can still FADC through limbs / fireballs but not every limb / fireball. crLK buff would be nice (and frankly he should have a low hit confirm just as every character should). HK Ruffian I dunno if it needs invincibility / better startup so much as just needs to have the hurtbox reduced to around chest height to make it function similar to Makoto’s Fukiage and it would anti air better.
Zonk being full body strike invincible on non-ex version would be a bit too good. It’s a move that needs to be better but that would make it too good. I’d rather they increase the range and/or reduce the startup time. Make it like 14F or 15F for all versions and moves farther forward by a little bit if they want to buff zonk at all.
Personally though I think these buffs would be the way to go for him:
Better walk speed overall (from 0.038 forward 0.024 backward to something like 0.041 forward 0.027 backward or 0.04 forward 0.03 backward like Ken used to be.)
F+HK made airborne from 5F till 25F (2F before recovered) and able to hit crouchers at the cost of nerfing the damage from 110 to 90 and stun from 200 to 150
Badstone startup reduced dramatically (like 4-5F less than it is now. Make it like 24 or 25F startup along with reducing fake badstone to like 26F) <- This allows him to frame trap better with BS and zone better.
LP Criminal Upper made -2F or -3F on block.
Far MK hitbox moved forward hurtbox moved back startup reduced to 7F
MK Ruffian active frames increased from 4F to 8F so he can space it to be safe on block potentially.
HK Ruffian hurtbox reduced dramatically and recovery reduced by 4F to allow him to combo after easily without requiring an high air hit. Maybe reduce startup to 6F
crMK hurtbox reduced so he can slide under fireballs easier.
Ultra 2 gets partial juggles with wrench on air hit
crLK able to chain into other lights but not itself like how Cammy’s works in USF4 but retains 3F startup. Alternately make it +4F on hit but leave it -1F on block.
or
Close sLK made to hit low
Why would Zonk be too powerful? Make it -15 or something on block. I don’t care if it’s start-up is slow, I just don’t want to see it lose to blankas cl.hp.
All that stuff is like music to my ears but, maybe a few can be considered reasonable if you can point Combofiend to these suggestions and perhaps a compelling argument as to why. Anyway i’ll just go with the flow for as i won’t attend a location test unless it’s next to my door lol.
I’ve been messing around with IAB crack kick and it is definitely no replacement for EX CU in the grappler matchups…
And the much discussed Zonk FADC - if the developer’s intent was to make him a little safer then I’d rather have other versions of Ruffian be FADCable. And I definitely agree on unifying the startup time on Zonk - it makes no sense to have to charge for longer to get lvl3 Zonk only for it to LOSE combo options along the way!
Honestly, all I see is Cody getting more bad matches in this installment of the game. Some matches might get slightly more even, but Chun now…vs Chun what it will be…? 3/7 match-up.
Cody is getting nothing to deal with the changes other characters are getting. You’ve got characters getting speed buffs, doing more damage, getting better footsie tools. What is Cody getting exactly? Airborne crack kick…that’s really the only big buff he’s getting so far. cr. MK is a welcomed buff, but really only if it’s + on hit (+1, +2…not talking combo-able) so he can maintain pressure.
Cody can’t outfootsie Ken now…what the hell is Cody going to do against a faster walkspeed, a better sweep and a better push kick? I mean, he has matches that are going from 5/5 to 4/6.
I’m not saying Cody is going to be bottom 10, but he’s going from a mid to high-mid tier character to mid or slightly lower based on the rest of the cast. I’m tired of people saying, “Oh, but Cody can use delayed wake up to get out of set-ups!”…yes, and other characters can use delayed wake up to mess with Cody’s pressure all the same. It isn’t like Cody only loses matches based on vortexes. He gets completely outclassed in the footsie department by plenty of characters.
Hi guys i am new to the fórum, just curious about what everybody gonna do if cody turns to be worse just because Capcom thinks that a knife that break armor and a no use FADC Zonk means their policy about " we want to make every character a real threat". If i have to drop cody because of him losing to some “new ultra abusable easy high damage no guessing scrubness” i’d rather quit SSF4.
Continue to play Cody…and continue to beat people who are fundamentally weaker than I am…and continue to lose to 50/50s, gimmicks, derp, and the high tier characters as well.
if they indirectly make Cody a weaker character, but still fundamentally honest and clean, then every win will feel like winning the lottery. I picked up Juri when she was low tier and mained her…I picked up Cody when he was low tier and I main him. Do I want Cody to be a shitty character? No, but I intend to stick with him all the same.
Do I think Combofiend and Capcom have the slightest fking clue how to make this game better? No, I do not. I think they are just throwing shit at the wall and going on what looks cool amongst the crap. I see no method to their madness…and for the record, I hope I’m wrong.
