So I guess it’s not airborne for very long.
So what kind of feedback has been given about Cody thus far ny the players that attended the location tests.
That sucks I really thought I would be able to do just like ken with a light hurricane kick …sucks. And what’s the final deal with Cody FADC zonk? Is it regular cancel red focus cancel what? And can you follow up with ultra after this? Otherwise we should really petition to Clean Cody up a bit before release
FADC Zonk is regular EX Focus (2 Bars). You cannot follow it up with anything on hit and on block you are -1F on forward dash -9F on backdash. I brought up the issue to Dawgtanian when it was first announced and he didn’t know about the juggle issue and several people pointed out that FADC Zonk would be a pretty weak buff since you don’t use it as a reversal and on hit you can’t follow it up. He said he’d discuss it with Combofiend and thanked me for the detailed feedback. Fast forward 3 months Zonk FADC appears in the USF4 location test EXACTLY the same as when first announced. I call out Dawgtanian on the buff being weak just like when it was originally announced and he says “You don’t think being able to make it safe is worth it?”
Apparently Combofiend and Dawgtanian feel that being able to make Zonk safe on block is good enough. (only via forward dash and not against Gief/Hawk with ultra/super and backdash is MORE negative and leaves you closer to the opponent than if you didn’t FADC)
Unless people speak up this is likely going to be very similar to how Cody ends up in the final build. Still, he has some stupid stuff like EX CU trade to Ultra and F+HK for dealing with throw/frame traps so it’s not like it’s all bad news for him.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t want him to have any stupid stuff! As much as his character is portrayed as being a dirty fighter, he’s almost completely lacking in nonsense/bullshit in his favour!
Also forgot, Zonk FADC Forward dash will also be punishable by Guy, Ibuki, Balrog, Honda, Hakan and probably Poison (One her ultras is a command grab, the one people thought was a counter at first. It’s probably 1F after the flash like Honda/Balrog/Ibuki/Guy). And maybe Hugo too if one of his Ultras is a 0F grab like other grapplers.
And Akuma, Oni, and Evil Ryu but only if they have Super stocked and that isn’t particularly common (Esp for Evil Ryu)
Of course that is only if they got really good reactions. You’ll probably be able to get away with one or two zonk FADC forward dashes even when they have ultra until they get a bead on your rhythm and are ready for you.
I think I heard somewhere that Poison’s grab is 2F start up. Don’t quote me on that tho.
I’m pretty convinced none of the characters are even close to their final state in the game. I hope at the very least we get f.mp/mk.ruffian/U2 after zonk FADC… If DP’s are fully invincible and can combo after FADC, it really doesn’t make sense to not let Zonk do the same.
Regarding IAB crack kick, I’ve heard accounts of Cody corpse-hopping at Super, so that’s comforting.
I really enjoyed using EX upper against grapplers because it tends to push them far enough on block. I guess Capcom wanted EX Zonk to be the read against throws? However, EX upper should now be a great go-to option against divekicks and other low-air moves (hooray for not getting hit before active frames!), which is a very fair trade.
If corpse hopping is true I’ll be glad, that was one of the things i was most looking forward to about airborne crack kick. I still would rather have airborne at 3-5F and hit crouching (even with reduced damage) because I think that IAB stuff that is safe is a bad idea as it makes it really hard to play smart with frame trapping / throwing AGAINST Cody as he can go for an air reset safely and beat your throw attempt too. But hitting crouching would make him better at footsies and in offense where he should be good.
Yeah, in regards to EX Upper I was actually compiling a list of characters who can punish EX Upper on block since I always hear it’s “safe due to pushback” and surprisingly it’s very UNSAFE unless he only gets the tornado hits blocked otherwise he ends up far too close still. EX Upper trading will be good for Cody but bad for SF balance as a whole IMO. It’s gonna let him do A LOT more damage than he’d be able to do with the EX CU hitting and more than even an EX Zonk FADC in many situations since the opponent remains grounded. EX CU - Trade - crHP - HP Criminal Upper works against any mid or light if they are in range and does a truck load of damage. However it’ll certainly be interesting to see what we can come up with for airborne hits. You almost never see combos using the punch part of Criminal Upper on an airborne opponent which results in a juggle state, there is prob some interesting tech using that.
In regards to who can punish an EX Criminal Upper here is the list I’ve compiled so far:
Reposting this here on Techtun’s advice - probably should have posted it in here instead of the video thread in the first place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51bUAfw6Agg&feature=c4-overview&list=UUBi503QM4p5DFOOzpovKCrw
I think I’ll try and do a follow up to this looking at EX Zonk/EX CU/Crack kick in terms of how the changes will affect dealing with throws etc.
You can still get hit before active frames sadly, it’s just they reduced the window for this to 1 frame.
The more I play around with this the more I think there is little to no reason it shouldn’t work this way. Cody should be able to combo into his HP badstone at the very least.
Make LP Badstone 26F startup MP Badstone 24F startup HP Badstone 22F startup (all 3 are 42F total then). Keep the hitstun and recovery and such the same so that he can’t use it to FADC and keep comboing since there isn’t enough hitstun. It lets him combo into MP Badstone on counterhit sHP and HP badstone on regular sHP.
HP Badstone is only +4F on hit so the best followup Cody can usually do (due to the pushback on the HP) is crLP - crMP - MK Ruffian if the opponent is in the corner. He isn’t close enough for crLP - close MP. Mid screen the best he gets is sHP - HP Badstone - crLK - HP Criminal Upper which is actually less than doing sHP - crMP - HP criminal upper. (278 for Badstone combo vs 288 for no badstone.)
With the MP being comboable even WITHOUT a counterhit the best meterless combo I could find was vs Abel only and that is sHP - MP Badstone - clsMP - crHP - MP Badstone - crMP - MK Ruffian 388 damage which is comparable to Sakura’s cls MK - LK Tatsu - clsHP - LK Tatsu - crHP - LK Tatsu - sLP - HP Shooken 377 damage.
With it being counterhit only he’d lose the last MP Badstone - crMP - MK Ruffian set of attacks.
I’d love for someone at NEC to discuss this with Combofiend. 42F total for a fireball is well within the “fair” region IMO given it’s lower damage (50) and the fact he can’t FADC it to extend a combo like every other char with a fireball since it only has 22F of hitstun which means on FADC he is only +2F after a focus dash towards if he hit on the first frame. (Most fireballs have 30F of hitstun, they had to lower Cody’s because of his faster recovery. If they gave him the same frame advantage on block/hit as he has now and gave him the same hitstun as other chars they’d have to up his recovery from 16-20F to 24-28F.
42F for a fireball puts it at 1F slower than Gouken, and 3F slower than Sagat’s high tiger shot and 1F slower than Chun Li’s MP/HP Kikoken and the same as Dan’s HP Gadoken.
Thoughts?
Would anyone actually use this though? If you can’t combo into regular stone from a max range CH c.hp, what would be the point?
at 22 or 23F startup you’d be able to combo into HP Badstone even without a counterhit. With a counterhit crHP - HP Badstone would work from max range. But more importantly it makes the gap between crHP - Badstone on block MUCH shorter (23F would make the gap go from 12F to 6F which turns it into an actually somewhat legit frame trap instead of a joke of a frame trap.) and it gives Cody a good zoning tool with HP Badstone being 42F total instead of 48F he is able to compete in fireball wars which he can take advantage of the faster recovery on his fireball twofold. He slowly wins the fireball war against some characters which forces them to eventually try and jump at him or get around the fireball. It adds to the aspect already in place that is MUCH harder to utilize of putting your opponent into a specific mindset (throw fireballs) so that you can capitalize on their mindset. However with Cody’s slow startup on badstone and below average mobility and the fact his EX Ruffian isn’t projectile invincible on startup it’s much harder to condition your opponent to throw fireballs AND punish them for it against a lot of the cast. With a 42F fireball he can condition them to either NOT throw fireballs or throw MORE fireballs depending on the match up and what he wants them to do.
If it combos from max range wouldn’t you end up with enough frame advantage to combo into U2?
I think the EX Criminal Upper changes will have it’s good and bads. I think if it becomes a great tool at dealing with dive kicks, then the trade is worth it.
And thanks for the video Grounded, I shared it.
HP Badstone is only +4F on hit. MP Badstone is only +6F. The hitbox on the first 2F active still results in hitting on the first active frame. There isn’t enough frame advantage on the CH crHP to hit on the 2nd active frame which means that the best you can get is +6F
You can see here just how large the hitbox is on the first active frame of the badstone. All fireballs have large hitboxes on the first 2F active to reduce the chance of throwing a fireball THROUGH the opponent. (badstone is far right 4th from the top)
Yeah I think you’re right. I just tried speeding up mp stone to the point where it would connect on counter-hit hp/c.hp but not without counter-hit, and it seems like you can’t manufacture a situation where U2 will link. The problem is the stone pickup animation looks a bit wrong once it’s sped up!
If all of the stone animations were sped up it wouldn’t look wrong anymore. It’s just by comparison lol. It’s also just a “you’re used seeing it slow as hell” kind of thing. Like EX Badstone doesn’t look weird to you does it? It’s 24F startup.
LP = 26F
MP = 24F
HP = 22F
Fake = 25F
The badstone wouldn’t look weird by comparison anymore and fake badstone would be pretty hard to tell from a LP/MP badstone if not impossible to the naked eye.
I guess the only other consideration would be if those changes would improve his game too much in fireball wars.
No problem 
I don’t think it’ll be particularly good against divekicks though - you might beat out a dive kick a bit more often, but you’ll lose to throw when you guess wrong.