Clocks, how do they w0rk? Strider Hiryu Discussion thread

[Sonic721]

99 will not hit every character in a crouch fuzzy, its too high but dwn, up, up, will if you buffer it properly. It hits A LOT of characters @ instant overhead height while not using a jumping qcf+l to fuck up damage scale.

Who are you not able to hit when using 9,9? When input 9,9, I am able to hit every character that holds down/back. I’m assuming crouch fuzzy means to keep an opponent in low block animation? Are the frames that pass by before Strider jumps or super jumps the same? For ex: 3 frames have to pass by before Strider is in the air on a normal jump compared to 4 frames before strider is in the air on a super jump. Because, I don’t see a difference when trying to hit an opponent with Strider’s instant overhead when I input 2,99 compared to pressing 9,9. I am to hit the opponent with both but the 2,99 seems unnecessary when I get the same height with 9,9.

I can post a video showing just how low I can get when I input :u:, :u: + :atk:. Also, can you tell me which characters cannot be hit when Strider does 9,9? So I can show you that they can be hit, in my video.

I figured out a shit load of strider jumping techniques as of now, I have like 20 different jump techniques that all create different angles using his momentum from his dash, short hop and hyper hop techniques. There is an insane amount of possibilities strider can get away with. I think with a little bit more tweaking, strider should have 30 jumping angles in maybe another week.

By hyper hop techniques, do you mean his aerial excalibur l,m,h?

Also, I found a pure block pattern with strider that works anywhere. If the opponent doesn’t push block and simply just blocks, strider can loop it until the time runs out. Now the whole point of the pattern is to start initiating push blocks by the opponent in which case strider can stagger out the pattern and hit a preemptive push block.

Even though you said it is better to test things out on humans, one thing I tested on the cpu was an infinite block string. When the cpu push blocks your attacks, they push on the 1st frame the push block is allowed. So, I was able to keep the opponent in an infinite block stun when they push blocked & I when I turned off push block I was still able to keep them in infinite block stun. However this was in xf3 mode. Is the block stun you’re talking about in xf mode? Because when Strider is not in xf mode, & I cancel his :f: + :h: or :h: on bock into his satellite activation, the opponent leaves block stun for a split second.

Lastly, strider might be the stickiest character in the game. Right now, I can get 4 anti guard cancels. This means the opponent is push blocking 4 different times and I’m negating all of them in a row. Theoretically, strider SHOULD have a pattern where he keeps you in block stun forever. I’m doing 4 with strider solo so with an assist that 9 layers, with 2 assists, thats 14 push blocks that all get negated. I haven’t made it to 14 yet only 7 for right now but once strider gets to 14, he will have to change that last patter 1 more time and if he can get back in with an assist, it means you’re stuck in infinite block stun forever waiting to either be baited on a push or ground thrown for some damage.

I like to abuse Strider’s instant overhead in matches. So when I attack with something basic like: :h:, :f: + :h: xx satellite activation, :h:, :f: + :h, shoot orb, I dash after I shoot the orb, to negate the push block. So besides dashing, using his :qcf: + :atk:, and wall clinging, is there another way to negate push block that I do not know about, and that you are willing to share?

[shoultzula]

Who are you not able to hit when using 9,9? When input 9,9, I am able to hit every character that holds down/back. I’m assuming crouch fuzzy means to keep an opponent in low block animation? Are the frames that pass by before Strider jumps or super jumps the same? For ex: 3 frames have to pass by before Strider is in the air on a normal jump compared to 4 frames before strider is in the air on a super jump. Because, I don’t see a difference when trying to hit an opponent with Strider’s instant overhead when I input 2,99 compared to pressing 9,9. I am to hit the opponent with both but the 2,99 seems unnecessary when I get the same height with 9,9.

I can post a video showing just how low I can get when I input :u:, :u: + :atk:. Also, can you tell me which characters cannot be hit when Strider does 9,9? So I can show you that they can be hit, in my video.

you can still hit people its just that when you do 99 its very hard to hit a character as you ascend because of the tight input window. 299 allows a shorter jumping arc and basically when strider reaches his peak, he’s pretty close to IOH timing. so 99 makes it a slower mixup where as 299 makes it pretty fucking retarded and its also safer on wiff because strider recovers faster from 299 than 99

99 only hits crouchers as he descends, 299 will hit the majority of the cast even when they’re crouching as he ascends

basically 299 imo is faster than 99 but just a flat out ioh is the fastest

By hyper hop techniques, do you mean his aerial excalibur l,m,h?

in kof there are 2 short hops, a basic short hop 99, and a sj short hop which is 299 in umvc3. Its just a descprition of the technique and I find it incredibly fitting.

Even though you said it is better to test things out on humans, one thing I tested on the cpu was an infinite block string. When the cpu push blocks your attacks, they push on the 1st frame the push block is allowed. So, I was able to keep the opponent in an infinite block stun when they push blocked & I when I turned off push block I was still able to keep them in infinite block stun. However this was in xf3 mode. Is the block stun you’re talking about in xf mode? Because when Strider is not in xf mode, & I cancel his :f: + :h: or :h: on bock into his satellite activation, the opponent leaves block stun for a split second.

for years now, they have never programmed the training dummy properly. There are many quirks that happen when you program the game like that. Whenever you test something that is designed to work against human opponents, especially setups, you need to do that as a human vs human test which can be easily done in training mode with 1player.

I can’t tell you what is 100% wrong with training mode because the game is still “new” compared to mvc2. However, many people have mentioned several problems that I don’t personally use it to test human vs human scenarios.

but training mode is still very useful as long as you use it properly. You just got to be careful about what you’re testing and constantly ask yourself, is the CPU cheating this setup in anyway or doing something wrong?

I like to abuse Strider’s instant overhead in matches. So when I attack with something basic like: :h:, :f: + :h: xx satellite activation, :h:, :f: + :h, shoot orb, I dash after I shoot the orb, to negate the push block. So besides dashing, using his :qcf: + :atk:, and wall clinging, is there another way to negate push block that I do not know about, and that you are willing to share?

those are the ones I use too but I apply some really weird techniques to make them more effective thats all

i’ve found ways to increase the likely hood of negated pushblocks and if you were god like with the technique, you can increase the probability of a negated guard cancel by 100%

however, what I’m talking about is very machine level which is the type of game I aim for. I don’t go for what works for right now, I go for what will work the best in the end right now

[Sonic721]

you can still hit people its just that when you do 99 its very hard to hit a character as you ascend because of the tight input window. 299 allows a shorter jumping arc and basically when strider reaches his peak, he’s pretty close to IOH timing. so 99 makes it a slower mixup where as 299 makes it pretty fucking retarded and its also safer on whiff because strider recovers faster from 299 than 99

99 only hits crouchers as he descends, 299 will hit the majority of the cast even when they’re crouching as he ascends

basically 299 imo is faster than 99 but just a flat out ioh is the fastest

Does Strider recover faster from 299 than 99 on whiff because he is ascending when he hits the crouching opponent? But what if I whiff while rising with 99? Would I recover at the same speed as a 299 that whiffs while rising?

When I use 99, I am able to hit a crouching opponent while I am ascending on a consistent basis. (Like Ammy & rr)

So are you saying 99 is an ioh because when he jumps he is already at his peak for an ioh? But 299 isn’t an ioh because when Strider jumps he isn’t at the right height for an ioh because he is too high or too low? I’m confused.

Basically you’re saying that 299 is faster because he hits while rising & 99 is slower because he hits while descending. But, if I hit with an 99 while ascending, it will be the same speed as a rising 299?

So if both 99 & 299 are performed perfectly & both whiff while rising, will they both recover at the same speed? I plan on going into training mode to see which one recovers faster, because of how you said 99 only hits crouchers when descending, even though a perfect 99 can hit crouchers while rising.

however, what I’m talking about is very machine level which is the type of game I aim for. I don’t go for what works for right now, I go for what will work the best in the end right now

Me too. I’m going for what will work the best in the end. That’s why I am being really specific about the whole 99, 299 topic.

[shoultzula]

let me explain the 99 and 299 again

when strider does 99 against crouchers and goes for lmh, L can hit ascending but mh won’t. Strider will still be ascending and I THINK mh will wiff because strider is still going up

when you use 299 against crouchers, strider gets ioh L but MH is in a better position to hit more frequently against all the characters in the game. After the “hyper hop” MH is falling instead of ascending.

they’re both overhead setups. IMO, the only time 99 is faster than 299 is against a fuzzy guard opponent who is standing because there is no need to 299 @ that point. 99 will hit them just fine but crouchers from my exp is a different story

299 is 2x lower than 99

299 has better recovery than 99 so for example if you wiff a 99 setup or its pushed out, you’re stuck floating for much longer than if it were a 299. Basically whenever you wiff a 99 setup, you’re stuck in the air twice as long as the 299.

299 and 99 can be inputted @ the exact same speeds if you buffer into them but from neutral 99 is going to be faster because its 1 input less.

sorry if I’m not explaining this properly though I’ll go back into training mode and see if I can get 99 to hit crouchers with ioh lmh but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work

[Sonic721]

Explanation

Thanks, now I understand what you’re saying. I don’t know if 99 lmh will whiff on crouching opponents, but 99 lhs connects. I guess I should start using 299 now since strider couches for a bit before jumping & recovers faster.

[Rykendawg]

strider stuff

I understand you not wanting to share some of your secret tech and it’s absolutely your decision to reveal it or not. If we don’t share our stuff though, how is Strider really going to grow? I’m not saying people should reveal everything but enough to really make the character powerful. It’s thanks to the zero players that he stands where he is now in the game.

[shoultzula]

I understand you not wanting to share some of your secret tech and it’s absolutely your decision to reveal it or not. If we don’t share our stuff though, how is Strider really going to grow? I’m not saying people should reveal everything but enough to really make the character powerful. It’s thanks to the zero players that he stands where he is now in the game.

last time I shared information it was about an unknown infinite for spiderman in mvc2. The player took my combo, uploaded it to youtube and then claimed credit for it. That was the last time I shared some secret tech.

strider can still grow. If I could figure it out that means everyone else can too. I totally understand though if everyone knew what I know about strider, we could very easily expand the character potential but I don’t do things like that anymore.

I still share technology but its very rarely things out of my bag. I usually start explaining shit when I see other people going for it that way what I’m talking about isn’t new technology. I don’t mind sharing other types of technology like good\bad matchups

[Rykendawg]

last time I shared information it was about an unknown infinite for spiderman in mvc2. The player took my combo, uploaded it to youtube and then claimed credit for it. That was the last time I shared some secret tech.

strider can still grow. If I could figure it out that means everyone else can too. I totally understand though if everyone knew what I know about strider, we could very easily expand the character potential but I don’t do things like that anymore.

I understand how you feel.

[option.iv]

I’ve quickly tested 299 and 99 and find that 99 is just better. With 299 they don’t go 2x lower than 99. 299 just slightly rises and falls faster than 99. It’s pretty negligible though. It’s better to start with j:h: instead of j:l: anyway to maximize damage and os the throw just in case. I’ve tested this with the Hitbox and use double tapping to get the best results. Keep in mind though, double tapping perfect the double jump won’t come out. The soonest it can be done is maybe like 2-3 frames after the first up input. So it’s like :u: (wait 2-3 frames) :u: for the lowest 99 possible.

And who honestly cares about withholding tech. Unless it’s extremely broken and you think it can turn the tides and make you an evo champion, I wouldn’t see the reason. If it’s just for a couple youtube views, then we know what’s important to you…

As for Zero, his tech is pretty straightforward. He is an easy character once you break him down. And ever since the lvl 3 buster cancel, he’s definitely risen to top spot. People should get over their egos and try to nurture the scene. It’s not like the old days of usa east coast vs west coast. We have things like SRK, growing communities and video streaming to communicate.

The real way to get stronger is to play against people at your level. If you don’t nurture your community, you’re going to lack that experience. There’s always a better player out there. Look at the recent Final Round tourny. Joe and RR took it. It was USA’s fault because there were Joe’s and RRs out there. People were just satisfied playing the metagame, paying no heed to the new chars. That’s why we’re salty and Japan came out the victor.

[Sonic721]

I’ve quickly tested 299 and 99 and find that 99 is just better. With 299 they don’t go 2x lower than 99. 299 just slightly rises and falls faster than 99. It’s pretty negligible though. It’s better to start with j:h: instead of j:l: anyway to maximize damage and os the throw just in case. I’ve tested this with the Hitbox and use double tapping to get the best results. Keep in mind though, double tapping perfect the double jump won’t come out. The soonest it can be done is maybe like 2-3 frames after the first up input. So it’s like :u: (wait 2-3 frames) :u: for the lowest 99 possible.

That was the point that I was trying to make. Imo when I inputted 99 & 299 perfectly on my stick, they both raised to the same height on the screen. For me , 299 was not 2x times lower than 99. Plus I was able to hit a crouching character while ascending with a :l: or :h:, when I used 299 or 99.

Since you have a hitbox, can you confirm that a perfectly executed 299 & 99 makes Strider rise to the same level on the screen?

I just need to make sure that I am inputting 299 fast enough, because with my results 299 was not 2x lower than 99. They both caused Strider to rise to the same height on the screen.

To me, this is important since I want to make sure whether 99 or 299 has the lowest jumping altitude. Thanks in advance.

[shoultzula]

And who honestly cares about withholding tech. Unless it’s extremely broken and you think it can turn the tides and make you an evo champion, I wouldn’t see the reason. If it’s just for a couple youtube views, then we know what’s important to you…

.

lol it wasn’t about the views which is basically a cleverly disguised insult on your part

it was the mere fact someone would take something from me after I made it up, then pass it off as their own work. Does anyone else like their ideas to be stolen and someone else gets the credit?

but go ahead and keep assuming, its shoryuken.com after all.

and yes, the strider tech I’m sitting on is definitely capable of helping the character win tournaments.

there is a massive difference in the 99 and 299 variations, each has its place. 299 has faster mixup opportunities than 99. 299 variations create alternate fighting angles and can allow faster punishing situations like when strider has to short hop over projectiles. if you 99 it or just regular jump that shit is really slow but you 299 over certain projectiles you can actually punish them safely and this tactic of dodging projectiles is MUCH safer than teleports because strider can move and then block where as during the teleports you can throw or hit him out of them.

when you go for 99 on magneto and he’s crouching, that mixup attempt you’re going to go for will be slow as fuck. 99, j.l ioh, immediate j.h will miss but if you try 299, j.l ioh, j.h, it will hit. The only way for 99 hit to hit smaller characters while crouch blocking is to 99, wait, descend and then start poking where as 299 basically allows for an immediate mixups.

not only that but if you 299 and your setup gets countered, you’re going to recover much faster than off 99.

BOTH input techniques have places. 99 is great for when you can get in but it wasn’t safe and someone is mashing push. The 99 will dodge most wiffed push blocks in the game where as 299 is susceptible to getting hit.

and yes, 299 variations go MUCH lower than 99 variations. When strider jumps with 299 variations, I can actually stay underneath magneto’s head as he’s standing. That’s how low I’m getting

[Sonic721]

when you go for 99 on magneto and he’s crouching, that mixup attempt you’re going to go for will be slow as fuck. 99, j.l ioh, immediate j.h will miss but if you try 299, j.l ioh, j.h, it will hit. The only way for 99 hit to hit smaller characters while crouch blocking is to 99, wait, descend and then start poking where as 299 basically allows for an immediate mixups.

and yes, 299 variations go MUCH lower than 99 variations. When strider jumps with 299 variations, I can actually stay underneath magneto’s head as he’s standing. That’s how low I’m getting

Lol this is stupid :). I read your stuff, & then I go into training mode to see if I’m messing up with my inputs. I’m like “Okay, Shoultzula says that when he tries 99, j.l ioh immediate j.h on a crouching magneto, that he misses.” Then I go into training mode and test to see if that’s right & if I am making a mistake. I input 99 when magneto is crouching, and while I am ascending, I am able to hit with j.l ioh, immediate j.h. I’m like “okay?” Then to make sure that this is possible, I test the same setup at least 15 more times successfully, just to make sure. And when I do input 99 correctly, I am able to hit the crouching magneto with the j.l ioh immediate j.h while ascending.

I tell myself, “okay, I’ve tested this numerous times, this has to be true.”

Next, I test to see if I can stay underneath magneto’s head when he’s standing with 299 & 99. Again, I try to do it 15 times successfully. And when I was able to do 299 or 99 correctly, both versions allowed strider to stay underneath magneto’s head as he’s standing. If I tried to do 299 or 99 too quickly, strider would not double jump correctly. He would just jump once which would be a super jump or a normal jump.

I also tried dashing 299 and 99 & stationary 299 & 99. Like before I tried to get the best results at least 15 times successfully. All of the jump versions let strider stay underneath magneto’s head while he’s standing.

Also, when I tested out dashing & stationary 299 & 99, Strider fell to the ground at the same speed. 299 just makes Strider appear to fall faster because of the white smoke the appears underneath strider when he jumps.

I have come to the conclusion that when 299 or 99 is performed as fast as possible that: strider can hit a crouching character with a j.l ioh immediate j.h while rising, he will fall to the ground at the same speed with either jump, & both jumps have the same low altitude when jumping (one does not go higher/lower than the other one).

So, this means that you are inputting 299 as fast as possible, but you are not inputting 99 fast enough. And just to make sure that I was inputting 299 & 99 as fast as possible, I tested the jumps numerous times until I felt satisfied with the results.

So for any strider player that wants to use 299 or 99 for an instant overhead, just use whatever feels more comfortable for you. I hope that what I posted will help out anyone that is having trouble deciding which jump to use.

P.S. using bold font is fun :).

[option.iv]

Problem is, whatever tech we come up with is 99% not ours. We’re not real life scientists. The guys who made this game know the hitboxes and frame data. So they already know what tech is possible.

And 299 and 99 differences are negligible. Again, I tested with the hitbox, 299 is definitely not 2x lower than 99. I don’t know what game you’re playing but testing with a Hitbox and double tapping does not yield your results. Others are even claiming the same. The only difference is that Strider rises and falls barely faster than 99 which is definitely negligible.

[Slychivas90]

New to this forum, going to learn Strider. I currently Use C. Viper, Magneto & Doom but will be switching it up to
viper, doom(beam), strider (vajra) & viper, Strider (vajra) & Rocket Raccon (pendulum), any thoughts on team composition?

[Cisco]

Hows Clock been doing? Any good Strider stuff been popping out on the big stage lately?

[DevilJin_01]

Hows Clock been doing? Any good Strider stuff been popping out on the big stage lately?

He was at Final Round but got the blow up in his pool I think. If he made it out of his pool you would have seem some cool stuff go down I’m sure.

[lamuness]

New to this forum, going to learn Strider. I currently Use C. Viper, Magneto & Doom but will be switching it up to
viper, doom(beam), strider (vajra) & viper, Strider (vajra) & Rocket Raccon (pendulum), any thoughts on team composition?

My only thought is… Good luck with Racoon Anchor, because he’s better with assists. I think it might be better to switch raccoon to 2nd. Vajra lets him do whatever he wants. Log doesn’t REALLY help strider out too much.

[Sonic721]

He was at Final Round but got the blow up in his pool I think. If he made it out of his pool you would have seem some cool stuff go down I’m sure.

I heard he didn’t even play Marvel at Final Round.

Last time I saw him play was that tourney that Jwong used random select for his characters. But even then Clock didn’t do anything new. Like in xf3 he still used basic combos that wouldn’t kill his opponents. When he used the ammy assist, he went for a normal jump :l: into :l: excalibur for an instant overhead. So I have’t seen him do anything new since scr.

But that makes sense, since he was working on releasing the sfxtekken guide. If you listened to his podcast where he talked about completing the marvel guide, he said that completing the guide with a limited time frame took up all his free time. Basically he didn’t have the time to practice marvel.

[Exarkun]

last time I shared information it was about an unknown infinite for spiderman in mvc2. The player took my combo, uploaded it to youtube and then claimed credit for it. That was the last time I shared some secret tech.

strider can still grow. If I could figure it out that means everyone else can too. I totally understand though if everyone knew what I know about strider, we could very easily expand the character potential but I don’t do things like that anymore.

I still share technology but its very rarely things out of my bag. I usually start explaining shit when I see other people going for it that way what I’m talking about isn’t new technology. I don’t mind sharing other types of technology like good\bad matchups

Get a capture card. Strider does not need to be obscure to those who are still learning him. No reason for the anonymity.

[Exarkun]

Been reading a little bit in the forum about the jump series against fuzzy guard. I don’t change up my pattern except when I need to stay as low as I can, even though all of striders attacks in the air :lp: on hit is +11 frames and on block is +9, :mp: on hit +16 on block +14, and :hp: on hit is +18 and on block is 16. They all count as overheads. Most of the cast has 81 frames of super jump and double jumping will essentially give you 13 additional frames during this period but will diminish the remaining frames. To avoid floating, I do Excalibur :lp: Not only is it safe, and give you +10 on hit and +8 if guarded but once you are on the ground you are completely recovered. If you have satelite open you can fire away for various mixups and other patterns since advaning guard gets diminishing returns when used excessively especially during supers or during a match. If I am going normal jump or TK jump xx’s I usually go with :mp: depending on the height of the character.