good point.
But not everyone has the range, speed and mobility that Vega has
Nope. Pressure strings.
I was using cLP cLP cLK into LP-RCF FADC to pressure until I realized that, in that string :
— On hit, cLK whiffs on standing against half of the cast. You’ll acknowledge that for a low attack that’s embarrassing. -_-
— On hit, cLK connects on standing against those with larger hurtboxes (as Honda), but then hasn’t enough hitstun for the RCF to combo (first hit is 1 frame too late, and gets blocked). cLP does not whiff, but has similar problem with RCF. =p
The strangest thing about all that is that against some rare characters (as blanka), it does hit them standing, but not crouching. =D
Against Gen, if my memory does not betray me, it does fail as much if he stands than if he crouches. -_-
So I would have asked for a fix, at least by extending first active frame hitbox so that it doesn’t whiffs. If not, the other solution to make cLK usable would have been making it a 3 framer, but that would also help in FADC and frame-traps situations, so it would become quite a buff. Or to give it +1 hitstun. Several possibilities, but even just the fix would make me happy. =)
There is no character that Vega cant approach from the ground (including cammy) and plenty characters that cant approach vega from the ground , therein lies the difference.
Its a difficult problem to tackle actually, vega’s normals are pretty powerfull to give him much of the tools other characters have.
I remember Seth killian used to say that vega was one of the most powerfull characters in the game in prerelease versions and he had to be toned down, maybe he still had his super turbo invulnerability then and it was decided that it should never happen for reasons they saw unfold, only a theory of mine though.
Give him a better (and by better I mean less retarded) hitbox on cr.hp and he’ll be a straight beast in an experienced Vega player’s hands. But that won’t tip the scales too far as to make him appear god-like, so we can keep those shit-for-brains bandwagoners at a distance.
Win-win.
Why do people persist to worry about “bandwagoners”… What harm are they gonna do?
bandwagoners notoriously bring more nerfs, often breaking shit that wasnt even a real problem
With Vega play style he won’t be that popular over the other characters. Bandwagoners hopping on vega are not going to be going against vega. What are they going to break?
the bandwagoners themselves aren’t the problem (although last thing i want is a ton of mirror matches)
It’s the people that play against the bandwagoners.
Sometimes it’s good like in the case of Yun in AE
Sometimes it’s bad like in the case of Cammy in Super… although she’s accidentally on top again lol.
Because the idiots who made this game broke down the game into categories.
Those who do and those who don’t based on how well Capcom thinks that character controls space with normals up close. What I’ve noticed is that those characters who control space really well up close, Bison, Vega (yeah Vega because his best pokes are still st.lk due its speed and versatility, cr.lp not cr.mp, and cr.mk: all close range normals), and those who don’t.
FADC just happens to be a very stupid retarded mechanic in which the developers obviously didn’t put the time to think about how powerful and retarded it is to cancel a Dragon Punch style move. That mechanic alone exaggerates the problem and makes characters like Vega second rate characters where putting the time in isn’t really worth it when you think about what other characters can do once they are in, especially when the engine favors offense rather than defensive footsies.
Get rid of FADC, and suddenly everybody gets raped as bad as Vega once you lose the footsie battle. Which its how it should be, once you lose the footsie battle you deserve to lose and escaping should be heavily against your favor and the reward should be almost non existent, But at the same time winning the footsie battle with a footsie character should be rewarded, but it isn’t. But FADC is here to stay, and there isn’t a move, barring Red/Crimson Claw, that they can give Vega that would fix the retardation that is mix up situations.
Vegaman makes good points but that’s not where I’m coming from. I’ve made no secret about my personal bias against Vega bandwagoners. It has nothing to do with worrying if they’ll bring nerfs, I just hate them.
Some people find that petty and stupid and have told me so, that’s fine. Lovely, in fact. Everyone’s got an opinion and they’re entitled to it. Mine happens to be if you’re jumping on my character’s train because you believe him to be broken good, die slowly in a fire. Fuck off. You’re tarnishing art, baby. At least that’s how I feel. And people can feel free to mock that, that’s fine.
I have an extremely high level of respect for the Vega mainers who’ve toughed it out this generation, especially since Vanilla. And, my hatred of (future) Vega bandwagoners is just as high.
Again, my bias.
My main problem with Vega is he does get raped in the corner and has basically no way out, i also find i have to use U2 as an escape option at times and just waste it which is annoying, although usually a good player can always stop it anyway. Vega needs a way to help when being pressured in the corner. His flips, normal SHC and mask/claw removal are all useless moves, it would be nice if they could be changed to actually be of some use. It would also be nice to see his super changed so its actually useful.
Sometimes i wonder if it would’ve been good to make his U2 a mix up one like Blankas which can be an AA or ground ultra, but it isn’t that powerful.
I’d be happy with them making his cr.HP more of a useful AA and extending his claw hit box though. Seems like good suggestions here. I’ve always wanted ST to have some i-frames though since the original, wish i could test out both options…
The corner = end to Vega is linked to the fact all his defensive moves require space.
I see two ways to solve this :
— A viable reversal : I think we can forget about it
— Or maybe, defensive moves which would not only pull back, but also allow to move forward : there are characters (such as Yang, and Ibuki) who have moves which do allow to cross the opponent. Claw could use this kind of move to escape a corner, which would at the same time allow him to get out of unsolved situations, and allow to maintain his evasive style. Opponents would still rush him down without fear, but at least he would have some answers.
So what we could imagine, is the ability to choose to move forward or backwards with flips, and speed them up a bit (or tune the distance they cover). That way, Claw still complies with all the flaws they wanted in his character design (no AA, no invincible attack), but would avoid corner dead end. =)
What do you all think about it ? Isn’t it a reasonable request ? =)
I think there is some truth in there. They wanted some characters to be a bit superior to others.
That’s why bandwagoner are still mainly going towards shotos if you ask me. =D
I do believe a lot of Claw players posting here feel that way. I’m among them.
But still, facing those in ranked, or you’ll end thinking « do you really wanna give me points again ? » or « what weakness/imperfection of mine could this guy expose ? ». So in the end, even if mirror matchs are always difficult for the ego of one of the two claws, it’s still a great occasion to learn. Even from people significantly less skilled than oneself. =)
THIS alongside Vegaman’s reasoning is how I feel on the subject too. Mastering a character is an artform in itself.
Why would you care if vega gets bandwagon players?
You know the matchups better… lol
Because who wants to waste time trying to educate someone when they’re just going to drop the character two weeks later?
Who wants to waste time playing against moronic mirror matches either?
The ability to combo a scarlet terror from a cr mp would be great especially if he could follow up with a cosmic heel into slide/ex cosmic heel or ultra. Don’t see it happening but after playing SFxT for the last year it would be great to see some of that Vega ported into AE.
Other than that I would like to see improvements to Cr HP to make it a better AA. Also quicker recovery on his flips since if they are supposed to be a unique pressure evading tool for Vega then they really should be more effective than how they currently perform.
Actually thinking back to Cross Tekken how about making Bloody High Quality perform to the same AA standards would that be to much to ask?
controlling flip direction would be interesting except that it doesnt change the fundamental problem with the move… the unsafeness (if that’s a word) of it. You have to remember that most of the cast can punish a full screen wall dive if they are not committed to another move. Punishing a flip that lands closer wouldnt be much of a problem, especially if they walk/dash with it. OS fireball would be developed in a matter of minutes
I’d rather be cornered and pressured than giving up a free combo leading to a KD out of the corner.
Also, can someone make a video of RCF getting blown up? I can only find a video from Vanilla
The same reason I hate gnats or flies. They aren’t really bothering me in any specific or major way, but still, when they come near me I want to end them.
But luckily, Vega in the IV series has never really had a bandwagoner problem. Pre-realease SFxT Vega was a whole 'nother issue though. Sooo many bandwagoners came out of no where and openly admitted they were, in fact, bandwagoners. Go check the first few pages of Vega’s thread in the SFxT forum, you’ll see them yourself. I told them exactly the same shit I’m saying here.
Most have already moved onto Kaz Chun Ryu Hwa and Ken
Then maybe we could ask for the flips to land a bit farther as well. This could help I think, and I’ll happily exchange 70 dmg of a fireball for the possibility to backdash freely again. =)
Yep, here you go.